French block airlift of British troops to Basra

Stalin had himself invaded Poland and treated it as roughly as the
Germans did, so any Pole with a rifle would probably have emptied it
into the nearest Russian.
Getting rid of a Polish irritation in exchange for a rifle and good PR
makes sense.

It's not as though the Pole was wandering around at will, causing
trouble. He was in Siberia, in a slave labor camp.

You may recall that, at war's end, thousands of Russians in German
prison camps and in German uniform were pleading with the Americans
and British to let them remain in the west. Stalin insisted on having
them back, so he could kill them or send them to the camps. Some
killed themselves rather than board the trains to the east.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Stalin had himself invaded Poland and treated it as roughly as the
Germans did, so any Pole with a rifle would probably have emptied it
into the nearest Russian.
Getting rid of a Polish irritation in exchange for a rifle and good PR
makes sense.

It's not as though the Pole was wandering around at will, causing
trouble. He was in Siberia, in a slave labor camp.

You may recall that, at war's end, thousands of Russians in German
prison camps and in German uniform were pleading with the Americans
and British to let them remain in the west. Stalin insisted on having
them back, so he could kill them or send them to the camps. Some
killed themselves rather than board the trains to the east.


I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
sentences.

Keith

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Stalin had himself invaded Poland and treated it as roughly as the
Germans did, so any Pole with a rifle would probably have emptied it
into the nearest Russian.
Getting rid of a Polish irritation in exchange for a rifle and good PR
makes sense.

It's not as though the Pole was wandering around at will, causing
trouble. He was in Siberia, in a slave labor camp.

You may recall that, at war's end, thousands of Russians in German
prison camps and in German uniform were pleading with the Americans
and British to let them remain in the west. Stalin insisted on having
them back, so he could kill them or send them to the camps. Some
killed themselves rather than board the trains to the east.

We flew some of them out of Italy up to Klagenfurt at war's end and turned them
over to the Russkies. They were not happy campers, as I recall.

George Z.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Stalin had himself invaded Poland and treated it as roughly as the
Germans did, so any Pole with a rifle would probably have emptied it
into the nearest Russian.
Getting rid of a Polish irritation in exchange for a rifle and good PR
makes sense.

It's not as though the Pole was wandering around at will, causing
trouble. He was in Siberia, in a slave labor camp.

You may recall that, at war's end, thousands of Russians in German
prison camps and in German uniform were pleading with the Americans
and British to let them remain in the west. Stalin insisted on having
them back, so he could kill them or send them to the camps. Some
killed themselves rather than board the trains to the east.

I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
sentences.

Keith

Oh sure. Of course.
But you do notice the difference of course, even though you
prefer to defend Stalin and the soviets.
1) Stalin demanded the repatriation of the thousands of
soviet subjects in German prison camps. These were NOT
persons who had put on the German uniform. Many of them
did not want to be shipped back to Stalins' tender mercy.
2) There were a handful of British citizens in German uniform
versus thousands of soviet subjects who chose to serve with
the Germans against the soviet Russian regime.
3) In addition the soviets rounded up (sometimes with allied
help) ex soviet refugees, from refugee camps and by roundups
and sweeps throughout Germany, and forcibly shipped them back
to the soviet union.

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Stalin had himself invaded Poland and treated it as roughly as the
Germans did, so any Pole with a rifle would probably have emptied it
into the nearest Russian.
Getting rid of a Polish irritation in exchange for a rifle and good PR
makes sense.

It's not as though the Pole was wandering around at will, causing
trouble. He was in Siberia, in a slave labor camp.

You may recall that, at war's end, thousands of Russians in German
prison camps and in German uniform were pleading with the Americans
and British to let them remain in the west. Stalin insisted on having
them back, so he could kill them or send them to the camps. Some
killed themselves rather than board the trains to the east.

I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
sentences.

Keith

Oh sure. Of course.
But you do notice the difference of course, even though you
prefer to defend Stalin and the soviets.

At no point did I defend either Stalin or the Soviets

1) Stalin demanded the repatriation of the thousands of
soviet subjects in German prison camps. These were NOT
persons who had put on the German uniform. Many of them
did not want to be shipped back to Stalins' tender mercy.

Re-read the message to which I replied, it specifies
Soviet Citizens in German unforms


2) There were a handful of British citizens in German uniform
versus thousands of soviet subjects who chose to serve with
the Germans against the soviet Russian regime.

Quite so

3) In addition the soviets rounded up (sometimes with allied
help) ex soviet refugees, from refugee camps and by roundups
and sweeps throughout Germany, and forcibly shipped them back
to the soviet union.

Also true

Keith

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


Stalin had himself invaded Poland and treated it as roughly as the
Germans did, so any Pole with a rifle would probably have emptied it
into the nearest Russian.
Getting rid of a Polish irritation in exchange for a rifle and good PR
makes sense.

It's not as though the Pole was wandering around at will, causing
trouble. He was in Siberia, in a slave labor camp.

You may recall that, at war's end, thousands of Russians in German
prison camps and in German uniform were pleading with the Americans
and British to let them remain in the west. Stalin insisted on having
them back, so he could kill them or send them to the camps. Some
killed themselves rather than board the trains to the east.

I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
sentences.

Keith

Oh sure. Of course.
But you do notice the difference of course, even though you
prefer to defend Stalin and the soviets.


At no point did I defend either Stalin or the Soviets

That's how I interpreted your sentiments in writing
" I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
sentences." since I am sure that you knew the historical
facts of what went on.


1) Stalin demanded the repatriation of the thousands of
soviet subjects in German prison camps. These were NOT
persons who had put on the German uniform. Many of them
did not want to be shipped back to Stalins' tender mercy.


Re-read the message to which I replied, it specifies
Soviet Citizens in German unforms

"at war's end, thousands of Russians in German
prison camps ..." certainly does not!


2) There were a handful of British citizens in German uniform
versus thousands of soviet subjects who chose to serve with
the Germans against the soviet Russian regime.

Quite so

And you chose to disregard the implications as regards the
moral stand of the individuals in both groups.

3) In addition the soviets rounded up (sometimes with allied
help) ex soviet refugees, from refugee camps and by roundups
and sweeps throughout Germany, and forcibly shipped them back
to the soviet union.


Also true

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
sentences.

I don't think Joyce was their leader, and I seem to remember reading that
at least one other was shot...

And we're talking about British servicemen joining the SS here, not Germans
going home to fight...

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:

2) There were a handful of British citizens in German uniform
versus thousands of soviet subjects who chose to serve with
the Germans against the soviet Russian regime.

I don't actually have a problem with this, a traitor is a traitor is a
traitor.

Or does committing crimes with large numbers of other people make it right?

There's no difference to me between a Don Cossack in a German uniform and a
British fascist in a German uniform, except that some of the Don Cossacks
shot at British troops, including possibly some of my family.

--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three

"William Black" wrote:
| "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
| ...
|
| I doubt that the handful of British citizens in German
| uniform were too happy to be sent home either, their
| leader was hanged and they all received lengthy prison
| sentences.
|
| I don't think Joyce was their leader, and I seem to remember reading
that
| at least one other was shot...

John Amery was hanged in 1945, after pleading guilty to multiple counts
of treason.

| And we're talking about British servicemen joining the SS here, not
Germans
| going home to fight...
|
| --
| William Black
| ------------------
| On time, on budget, or works;
| Pick any two from three
|
|

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:

2) There were a handful of British citizens in German uniform
versus thousands of soviet subjects who chose to serve with
the Germans against the soviet Russian regime.

I don't actually have a problem with this, a traitor is a traitor is a
traitor.

Or does committing crimes with large numbers of other people make it
right?

There's no difference to me between a Don Cossack in a German uniform and
a
British fascist in a German uniform, except that some of the Don Cossacks
shot at British troops, including possibly some of my family.

Really? Where?

John