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#71
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MXSmanic, fjukktard incarnate.
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Marco Leon writes: The more I fly, the more I believe that the body of pilots that regularly do things that most will consider "stupid pilot tricks" is larger than what many people think. I think that body of pilots is quite large. It has to be, in order to explain the relatively poor safety statistics of GA. Add poor maintenance to that, and GA becomes pratically dangerous. And it doesn't have to be. How would you know, moron. You don't fly. As the Italian lady said to the pope after his latest dissertation on birth control.. You no playa da game, you no makea da rules. Bertie |
#72
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
"Peter R." wrote: What concerns me are those days where t-storms seem to be popping up everywhere and returns go from light to intense in 15 minutes or less. In those cases this relatively slow refresh rate makes flying through that zone a bit of a butt clencher. Indeed. Experience and caution are necessary components in making optimum safe use of the tool. After a while one develops a sense of what the NEXRAD is saying. The time sometime comes when discretion is the better part of valor, and a land-and-wait decision becomes the prudent course. However, since I've had XM weather I've had a lot better information on which to base that decision, and I've only had to make it once. -- Dan ? at BFM |
#73
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
know
Thanks. I thought you were commenting on the lack of Japanese theater in the cockpit. Jose -- There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when they push the button. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#74
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
"Montblack" wrote: As to the "stale" business, in 200+ hours of using the product in the most thunderstorm-infested region of the U. S., I have found 6-8 minute maximum lag a non issue for avoiding CBs. RV-10: Cruise Speed .....200 (3+) miles/minute OK, rub it in. Poor ol' Delta was doing the best she could. Anyway, I'm beyond the reach of RV-10 temptation now. The deal for my next airplane is almost done. "It's like he flew right into the storm, as if he didn't no that it was there," one witness reported. g If the witness could see it, why couldn't the pilot? -- Dan ? at BFM |
#75
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
"Dan Luke" wrote Anyway, I'm beyond the reach of RV-10 temptation now. The deal for my next airplane is almost done. Man, you can't leave us hangin' like that! What kind of airplane? -- Jim in NC |
#76
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
"Morgans" wrote: Man, you can't leave us hangin' like that! What kind of airplane? T182T -- Dan ? at BFM |
#77
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
On Jun 4, 12:21 pm, "Peter R." wrote:
I was listening to LiveATC.net's feed of Syracuse, NY, yesterday (Sunday) Thank you Peter, for introducing a neat web goodie! After listening to the inflight, and reading some posts here, I am amazed at your point of view. As I see it, the controller is the dummy with his his head stuck up his rear. How can you work full time in this business, and not know what XM is ? The controller got nervous by looking at his radar, when the pilot (who said that he was IFR rated) had his window to look out. Unsafe ? The pilot is using modern technology to overcome a problem with ATC, they usually don't offer advice, and will let you fly right into the soup without warning. Anyway, that is how I see it. |
#78
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
On 6/12/2007 6:58:10 AM, George Graham wrote:
As I see it, the controller is the dummy with his his head stuck up his rear. How can you work full time in this business, and not know what XM is ? I don't know this controller personally, but I fly into and out of SYR twice to three times every week since 2002 and I know he is no dummy over the air. My take on this? This is probably the controller's first experience in dealing with a pilot who continually admitted that he was using the guidance of his XM weather over the controller's weather assistance to avoid what appeared to be extreme weather in the aircraft's path. Recall also that a) XM weather is a relatively new concept, having only been available for the last two years or so and b) most controllers including this one are not pilots and therefore are not aware of the latest technology to grace the GA cockpits. The controller got nervous by looking at his radar, when the pilot (who said that he was IFR rated) had his window to look out. You will note in the audio clip that at one point the controller reads the latest ATIS at the airport and visibility was reported at 3 miles in haze. The airport was perhaps 20 miles east of the pilot's location with no significant geographical differences between it and the aircraft's location. At another point the controller asked the pilot for the conditions and the pilot reported visibility at 5 to 10 miles. Between the ATIS and the pilot's admission to visibility starting at 5 miles, I think for discussion purposes it is safe to assume that visibility was less than 10 miles. Yes, the pilot certainly had his window as the primary weather avoidance tool but it was a very hazy day and the first weather call by the controller reported extreme weather 8 miles directly ahead, arguably out of the pilot's sight at that point in the clip. Unsafe ? The pilot is using modern technology to overcome a problem with ATC, Based on my understanding and as a WSI downlinked weather customer and IFR pilot myself, I was pointing out that XM NEXRAD (that which is displayed on the pilot's Garmin 396) can be up to 9 minutes old, or perhaps even older (*). This "modern technology" is *not* without limitations. Nine minute old NEXRAD data will mislead a pilot into believing a strong cell is in one location when in fact that cell has moved up to 10 miles from that point. This difference should be enough to support the contention that downlinked NEXRAD weather is NOT a tool for tactical weather avoidance, as this pilot in the clip admitted using as such ("picking my way through"). Approach facilities like SYR have weather radar that is much more real-time than nine minute old NEXRAD data. Why would a pilot fail to use ALL information available to him and decline controller provided weather deviations/recommendations, as this pilot seemed to be doing in this clip by stating that he had his own weather? (*) note in the clip that the pilot stated that XM NEXRAD could be up to 18 minutes old, which I incorrectly quoted previously in this thread as 8 minutes. If this is really the case, then 18 minute old data may as well be yesterday's NEXRAD as far as using it as a tool to "pick" your way through a line. No pilot who strives to avoid thunderstorm penetration would rely on 18 minute old data to circumvent cells. , they usually don't offer advice, and will let you fly right into the soup without warning. Anyway, that is how I see it. Come on. Think about that above statement for a moment. Had you used "thunderstorms" instead of "soup" you might have had an argument because there are documented accidents where controllers failed to call out thunderstorms in the paths of aircraft, but soup? Outside of the airport's ASOS/AWOS/human observation, controllers have no idea whether every mile within their airspace is IMC or VMC. Keeping an aircraft out of the "soup" is simply not a service provided by ATC. In any event, your point is moot in this example. The controller *was* attempting to offer weather avoidance services using radar that was much more current than XM NEXRAD. -- Peter |
#79
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
Peter R. wrote:
I don't know this controller personally, but I fly into and out of SYR twice to three times every week since 2002 and I know he is no dummy over the air. My take on this? This is probably the controller's first experience in dealing with a pilot who continually admitted that he was using the guidance of his XM weather over the controller's weather assistance to avoid what appeared to be extreme weather in the aircraft's path. I was thinking the controller understood how XM worked, and wanted to see if the pilot was aware of the delays and limitations vs. actual radar. He then trying to offer additional information, but he can't force the pilot to use it. |
#80
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VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather
On 6/12/2007 12:18:34 PM, B A R R Y wrote:
I was thinking the controller understood how XM worked, and wanted to see if the pilot was aware of the delays and limitations vs. actual radar. He then trying to offer additional information, but he can't force the pilot to use it. The old, "give him enough rope with which to hang himself," or in this case get the pilot to back into the conclusion that there actually is a limitation. Yep, I could see the controller having that hidden agenda, too. -- Peter |
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