Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes

Cy Galley wrote:
People HAVE died when they get too much Helium in their lungs.


That's what the MDS sheet on the site said.
Residual O2 in the lungs seems to be all that saves them.

At risk of repeating myself repeatedly, Scary Stuff.


Richard

How come we get so soon old and so late smart?

wrote in message oups.com...

I think divers have a term for a similar phenomenum, _shallow water
blackout_.

http://www.freedive.net/chapters/SWB3.html

--

FF

Very interesting! Thanks Fredfighter.



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In article ,
Rich S. wrote:
"David Kazdan" wrote in message
et...
Ouch, that's pretty bad. Sorry. No question about it, error. I rather
pride myself on not needing to use a spell checker, too. Ouch, ouch,
ouch. Need lidocaine.

I think I've got a thirty year old vial of it around hear someplace. . .

Rich S.



At thirty years old, I _really_ think you mean 'vile'. *GRIN*

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
...
I think I've got a thirty year old vial of it around hear someplace. . .


At thirty years old, I _really_ think you mean 'vile'. *GRIN*

You got that right. I think it turned yellow in 1985.

Rich S.

Hi David,

David Kazdan wrote:
Helium is almost exactly the dilutional asphyxiant that nitrogen is.
It's used in deep-diving artificial atmospheres for two reasons:
Nitrogen is a weak anesthetic gas, producing intoxication at several
atmospheres pressure--(nitrogen narcosis"), and it's soluble enough in
blood and other water-based body fluids to fizz out when the pressure is
released suddenly (the bends, caisson worker's disease). "Helium has
neither of these properties."

snip

David


David Kazdan, MD, PhD
Anesthesiologist
Pilot

I hesitate to enter this discussion since you are obviously well
qualified, however, that is often how learning occurs and I still
have a lot to learn.

I agree with all of your excellent post with one minor exception.
Helium _is_ absorbed into the bloodstream under high enough partial
pressure and does release bubbles when the pressure is released
too quickly. Heliox (Helium + O2) and Trimix (Helium + N + O2) are
common gasses used in the technical diving community, and they both
require decompression stops on the way back to the surface. Technical
divers use these mixes for dives from 130' (~5 atmospheres) to as much
as 1000' (~31 atmospheres). The O2 content of the mixes is reduced to
avoid oxygen toxicity effects at high PPO2. I also would point out
that helium at high PP--although not narcotic like Nitrogen--does
produce some strange physiological effects including a "buzz" similar
to having had a lot of caffein.

Don Woodbridge P.E.
Engineer
Technical Diver
Pilot

Roger wrote:
On 6 Feb 2006 11:40:13 -0800, wrote:


Roger wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:50:04 GMT, Richard Lamb
wrote:

Might we go a bit farther?

The reason I ask is that I've seen people take big lungfuls of Helium,
which (obviously) doesn't produce the same effect.

A really big lung full can make you light headed in a hurry, but
beyond that?


Can someone explain why N is such a disaster but He doesn't?

"I think" it has to do with the partial pressure of He compared to N,
but I really don't know.

Partial Pressure of a gas is what the pressure would be if all the
other gasses were removed without changing the volume.

Equal volumes of gas at the same temperature and pressure have
equal numbers of molecules (Avogadro's law). So no, that isn't
the explanation.

I thought Avogadro's Law (number the same?) was a gram molecular
weight of any element will have the same number of molecules as the
gram molecular weight for any other element. As I recall it's
6 X 10^28


Perhaps he has more than one law named for him.

In essence, Avogadro's number is the conversion factor between
gram molecular weight of an and the number of molecules
in a sample of that element with a mass numerically equal in grams
to its gram molecular weight. Which, as stated in the law you quote,
is the same for all elements, or for that matter any substance which
consists of but a single molecule.

6.022 E23, as I recall.

Avogadro's law, Boyle's law and Charles' law may be combined to
produce the ideal gas law.

--

FF

("Don W" wrote)
I also would point out that helium at high PP--although not narcotic like
Nitrogen--does produce some strange physiological effects including a
"buzz" similar to having had a lot of caffein.

Don Woodbridge P.E.
Engineer
Technical Diver
Pilot


This may sound silly, but what about CO2 in soda-pop? If one drinks six or
seven cans/day of pop (diet - whatever) what does that do in the
bloodstream?

I've heard Olympic level athletes do not drink pop, for performance
reasons - blood, oxygen carrying ability, ...something.


Montblack

" I think divers have a term for a similar phenomenum, _shallow water
blackout_.

Very interesting! Thanks Fredfighter.

Yes, thanks, I think.

I sometimes think that it is a miracle that I didn't manage to kill myself,
one way or the other, while growing up.

I spent a lot of time in pools and lakes as a kid, and was quite good at
spending large periods of time underwater, holding my breath. Sometimes it
was competing for swiming the greatest distance underwater. Sometimes it
was working on building stuff, like weighing down a plastic barrel upside
down, so we could swim under it, and hang out in the pocket of trapped air.

I was appauled to read about the symptoms I oftened experienced, and how
close I (and my buddies) came to doing serious harm. Wow!
--
Jim in NC

"Don W" wrote

Helium _is_ absorbed into the bloodstream under high enough partial
pressure and does release bubbles when the pressure is released
too quickly. Heliox (Helium + O2) and Trimix (Helium + N + O2) are
common gasses used in the technical diving community, and they both
require decompression stops on the way back to the surface.

A strange and juvenile thought popped into my head, while reading about
dissolved He, and thinking about the decompression effects one experiences
while ascending in an unpressurized small plane.

We all know that farts are unavoidable as we get high in a small plane.
Those are the garden variety stinky ones, from breathing regular air. What
happens when you come up from the depths after breathing some He? Do you
fart Helium? g

I know, thirty lashes with a wet noodle! ;-)
--
Jim in NC

"David Kazdan" wrote in message
m...

But breath helium in the absence of oxygen and, just like if you breath
nitrogen in similar circumstances, you will become unconscious, have an
anoxic seizure, and die. It's the same mechanism as used by the suicide
who surrounds himself with non-burning natural gas in an oven.

FWIW...

That's real hard to do nowdays.

Back when sticking your head in the oven was a popular movie cliche, the gas
distributed in most big cities was producer gas - a byproduct of of the
process used to make coke out of coal - essentially partial combustion with
inadequate air. The heating value of producer gas was primarily due to the
carbon monoxide content (it also contained a lot of N2 and CO2 as you would
expect). The CO is what made sticking your head in the oven work so well.
However, since the 1950's and the development of the cross country
pipelines, producer gas has been replace with natural gas (primarily methane
with a little mercaptan added to make it smell) which is just not the same
thing. Also, the oven burners are designed to mix air with the natural gas
so it's hard to adequately displace the oxygen in the air to commit suicide
by simply sticking your head in the open door.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
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