New Garmin 396

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

I am amazed that folks are predicting that the 396 is going to be the
holy grail of handhelds when, to my knowledge, no one so far in this
thread has touched one.

That is always possible. But, all of Garmin's recent (last five years?)
products to date have been hits. The 430/530 - everyone loves 'em. The
195 - a trailblazer. 295 - I still have mine and it works great. 196
- first GPS with a small "partial panel" display (and it works.)
Everyone loved it. 296 - terrain + weather, lithium ion batteries,
great unit size/display ratio. Another hit. Now the 396. Honestly,
who'd bet against Garmin? Give it a couple of months and I think you'll
see the unit lives up to the hype (which is user, not company generated.)

Secondly, the configuration issues that Richard speaks of are overblown
in my experience. He has continued to reiterate his own points, which
is fine, but some of them I've refuted. I do have a PDA system with XM
weather and I NEVER have to touch Bluetooth configuration or "manage"
the Bluetooth connections. Things may be different on a TabletPC, or
for those trying to do other things with their PDAs, but out of the box
they seem pretty much plug-and-play to me. They obviously aren't as
integrated as the 396, but that has both advantages and disadvantages.
Many of the XM problems reported by CV and WxWorx on Wings users seem
related to XM, so there is no guarantee that Garmin's users won't
experience them too.

Well, I'm not a total stranger to PDA solutions, or AnywhereMap/WX for
that matter. Fact is, this is a piece of software which cannot ever
hope to approach Garmin's reliability. We were discussing the 396 on
another forum, and one user stated that after the last time her AWM
"crapped out," she didn't bother to reload it and simply used the GPS in
her car for land navigation. I have used PDAs for years, including in
the cockpit, and even when I was happy with my cost-effective Palm VIIx
+ Palm.net + CBAV, I knew it was a less-than-ideal solution. The
extremely low cost of entry and tiny monthly fees made it worth it.

The PDA can be a useful tool, but clearly, it is not made for aviation
use. It can be hacked into doing so, but it will never be ideal, for
many obvious reasons. The interface is just not optimized for use
in-flight, in the cockpit.

The entire discussion began when Richard suggested that the 396 would
have less wires running to it than a PDA. With a Bluetooth capable PDA,
a Bluetooth GPS, and Bluetooth XM receiver, that assertion is false. I
simply stated that and then things started to snowball.

(Shrug) You could bluetooth it, but I agree with Richard. It's a
hassle, not to mention expensive. I've used Bluetooth devices before
and you're often limited by proper positioning of the devices in
relation to each other, configuration issues (glad you don't have them,
but many others do) and all kinds of other headaches which I simply no
longer have the patience to deal with. The 396 can operate with as
little as one external cable connection. The lithium ion battery, if
proven to be as effective as it has been in the 296, will provide more
than enough juice for flights of medium to long duration. Your
bluetooth setup is not typical; most folks are dealing with a lot of
wires in the cockpit for AWM/Wx. This is proven true by the fact that
excess cables are perhaps one of the top two complaints about the
cobbled-together AWM setup.

I am not anti-Garmin. I do like Garmin's products, and I presently own
and use two Garmin GPS units regularly. However, contrary to popular
belief, Garmin's products are computers and their software does have
bugs. Also, before I'm ready to declare that the 396 solves world
hunger, I'd like to see it or at least hear from those who have seen it
and used it. I suspect that we will have many hands-on reports posted
in a couple of weeks, after Oshkosh.

The difference is, these 'computers' are both DESIGNED and BUILT by
Garmin specifically for aviation functions. While it would be
inaccurate to say that their past products have been totally bug-free,
those bugs have been of the "minor" variety and quickly fixed with
revisions readily available from Garmin's website. Bugs are easy to fix
when all of the products are identical to each other; not so when you're
patching software which can run on many different PDAs.

The 396 may not solve world hunger, but I suspect it'll solve the GA
world's "hunger" for a portable weather solution which is reliable,
transportable, and cost-effective.

What issues did Rich mention about CV's products? In fact, I didn't see
any negative comments or issues reported about CV's products in this
thread. What am I missing?

I am surprised you need me to recount this for you. Whether they're
"negative" or not is in the eye of the beholder, but here you go:

"Your PDA needs a GPS antenna, an XM Wx antenna, power to the weather
receiver, and either a power cable or batteries to the PDA. You also
need to manage the Bluetooth connection, a source of technical issues in
flight."

"For the market of renter pilots -- which is quite substantial -- a 396
is much more convenient logistically than a PDA solution."

"The Garmin portable GPS units also have vertical navigation abilities
superior to any PDA, which can be quite helpful in an emergency."

"It is relevant to renter pilots in particular because it is by far the
easiest way to put both GPS navigation and weather in a rental airplane.
Sure you can set up an XM receiver, Bluetooth GPS, and PDA whenever you
rent a plane, but that is a lot more work then plugging in a 396."

Best regards,

-Ryan

"Ryan Ferguson" wrote:

That is always possible. But, all of Garmin's recent (last five
years?) products to date have been hits. The 430/530 - everyone loves
'em. The 195 - a trailblazer. 295 - I still have mine and it works
great. 196 - first GPS with a small "partial panel" display (and it
works.) Everyone loved it. 296 - terrain + weather, lithium ion
batteries, great unit size/display ratio. Another hit.

Don't forget the GPS III Pilot, one of the greatest little gizmos of any
kind I've ever owned.

[snip]

The 396 may not solve world hunger, but I suspect it'll solve the GA
world's "hunger" for a portable weather solution which is reliable,
transportable, and cost-effective.

Yep; that's the bottom line. It doesn't take a crystal ball to predict
this thing will be a hit.

Garmin is scary; it's got to be tough to be one of their competitors.
I'd sure like to know what their mfr.'s gross margin per unit is for the
396.

[snip]

So, Ryan: ya' ordered one yet?
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

In article ,
Ryan Ferguson wrote:
That is always possible. But, all of Garmin's recent (last five years?)
products to date have been hits. The 430/530 - everyone loves 'em. The
195 - a trailblazer. 295 - I still have mine and it works great. 196
- first GPS with a small "partial panel" display (and it works.)
Everyone loved it. 296 - terrain + weather, lithium ion batteries,
great unit size/display ratio. Another hit. Now the 396. Honestly,
who'd bet against Garmin? Give it a couple of months and I think you'll
see the unit lives up to the hype (which is user, not company generated.)

I think that you're being disingenuous here. I know plenty of folks who
aren't happy with the position they're now in with their 430s, for
example. I can give you plenty of example from years ago when I wasn't
completely satisfied with my Garmin products, because it was obvious
that Garmin did not intend to provide feature upgrades at a reasonable
price (in the portable market, this equated to a forklift upgrade for
Garmin products--how convenient.)

I continue to be amazed at the perception that Garmin's units don't run
software or run on some kind of operating system. Garmin's units do run
software, and that software has bugs. I really don't hear that many
folks complaining about their AWM system "crapping out" anymore, but I'm
only a fairly recent user. And I have found modern Bluetooth systems to
be very reliable, without having to "mess with" or "manage" anything. I
really don't understand where all of the alarming hype is coming from
surrounding these systems. I will admit that they aren't "one-touch"
systems and it does help to have an understanding of how they work, but
that's true for operating an aircraft as well.

There is still the perception that Honda and Toyota make the best cars,
but that isn't necessarily true anymore. Nevertheless, millions buy
them based on that perception, and will sing their praises despite the
fact that they have sometimes serious mechanical problems (I once had a
Honda owner tell me that a failed brake master cylinder that cost $800
to replace was "just a minor maintenance issue.") I would rather deal
with actual facts of user experience, rather than the marketing hype.
Right now, I can find user experience both positive and negative for all
products, including Garmin's.


JKG

Dan Luke wrote:

Don't forget the GPS III Pilot, one of the greatest little gizmos of any
kind I've ever owned.

HECK yeah! I have one, too. When I deliver helicopters or the
occasional small taildragger, I take the Pilot III. Total functionality
in the palm of your hand.

Yep; that's the bottom line. It doesn't take a crystal ball to predict
this thing will be a hit.

Garmin is scary; it's got to be tough to be one of their competitors.
I'd sure like to know what their mfr.'s gross margin per unit is for the
396.

Tough, indeed. They're the 900 lb. gorilla in this market, for sure.
And all of their customers are happy. It's their game to lose.

So, Ryan: ya' ordered one yet?

Not yet, but I will very soon!

How's all by ya? Sorry about the storm we sent your way.

-Ryan

"Ryan Ferguson" wrote:


How's all by ya? Sorry about the storm we sent your way.


Dennis is even scarier than Garmin! This is a real bad one. It
currently has the 6th lowest central pressure on record.

Right now (9:10am CDT) it's about 15G25 at my house with light rain.
The place is battened down and the generator's ready to go. I'm going
to keep posting in the other thread until the DSL goes down.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
news:1120967916.6c71a0a50cbfd93a86a5195829904909@t eranews...
Well the 430/530 are extremely popular. It is hard for me to imagine why
a 430/530 owner would choose a portable GPS model that will not interface
with the 430/530. The parts/labor to interface the 430/530 to the 396
cost perhaps 2% of the total cost of the 430/530 installation. I am not
saying all 430/530 owners need a 396 but it is inconceivable to me for
someone to install such an IFR GPS and then not be willing to pay $400 for
a used 195 and $150 to an avionics shop to interface the two. That is a
bargain if ever I saw one in aviation.
--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com

I have never heard of interfacing a 195 to a 530. What information is
shared?

Mike
MU-2

I was doing a little reading about this, since my club plane actually has a
430 and 195 but I've never bothered to hook them up.

This is from the 195 manual, and applies to all subsequent 19x, 29x units as
well:

"Aviation In/No Out is a proprietary interface for connection to a GARMIN
panel-mounted GPS receiver. With this selection, and a two-wire connection
to the panel-mounted GPS receiver, any GOTO or route selection is
automatically displayed on the GPSMAP 195. This eliminates the need to
enter the data into both units."


Interestingly, the 396 manual claims that the 396 can display, in addition
to XM Weather, information from the following external devices:

- TIS (traffic) alerts from Mode S transponders
- Sonar plots from the garmin sonar products (for use in Marine mode,
obviously)
- DGPS (I've never heard of this before, but apparently it's a technology
similar to WAAS for marine use)

And, the 396 can also apparently push VHF COMM frequencies to SL30 and SL40
radios.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
news:1120967916.6c71a0a50cbfd93a86a5195829904909@t eranews...
Well the 430/530 are extremely popular. It is hard for me to imagine why
a 430/530 owner would choose a portable GPS model that will not interface
with the 430/530. The parts/labor to interface the 430/530 to the 396
cost perhaps 2% of the total cost of the 430/530 installation. I am not
saying all 430/530 owners need a 396 but it is inconceivable to me for
someone to install such an IFR GPS and then not be willing to pay $400
for a used 195 and $150 to an avionics shop to interface the two. That
is a bargain if ever I saw one in aviation.
--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com

I have never heard of interfacing a 195 to a 530. What information is
shared?

Mike
MU-2

Jay Beckman wrote:

Him: "Point the nose that way ... keep pointing the nose that way until
you get there."

Tsk. Homing.

laugh

- Andrew

jsmith wrote:

If there is marriage in your future, you had better buy everything you
want NOW!

If she brings up the subject of marriage, as for her website URL. Tell her
you'll be spending two weeks...

- Andrew

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

That all being said, Garmin produces a very good, polished navigation
system that is hard to beat--in my opinion, none of the PDA-based
software products does navigation as cleanly.

That's true, but I still want a feature available via the PDA route and not
via the Garmin route: a backup AI. But then I fly club airplanes with 430s
installed, so when I think "handheld GPS" I'm thinking "backup"...and I
want as much backup as possible.

- Andrew