Bonanza crash caught on video

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ups.com...
On Sep 1, 5:38 am, "Blueskies" wrote:

Looks like the max temp yesterday was 98°f, pressure was 29.8 or so, winds were out of the south or south-south west.

There are no reported winds at that airport and I've never, ever seen
the winds there be the same as in the valley. If you are looking at
temps and wind directions from the sacramento area (which is what you
get on weather.com, etc) you can throw those in the round file. We're
always a bit cooler than Sac and the winds could never be the same
because there is a foothill range between the two and a 1000 foot
elevation difference. You guys on this board are as bad as the people
on the news with wild &*($ guesses that are useless.


There are no guesses about the weather in my post...the data sources are quoted and you cut them out. The closest
weather was from Mather and you assumed the rest.

Also looks like they were taking off 13, so they had a right cross wind.
(http://www.airnav.com/airport/O61)

No, it was 31.

As I said, it looked like 13, thanks for the clarification...

Applying Mather weather to Cameron Park is like applying Madison weather to
Oshkosh.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"Blueskies" wrote in message
news

There are no guesses about the weather in my post...the data sources are
quoted and you cut them out. The closest weather was from Mather and you
assumed the rest.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message ...
Applying Mather weather to Cameron Park is like applying Madison weather to Oshkosh.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"Blueskies" wrote in message news

There are no guesses about the weather in my post...the data sources are quoted and you cut them out. The closest
weather was from Mather and you assumed the rest.



But it was the best I could do. Simply stating the weather from Grass Valley is a better indicator would be enough.
Funny how well it does match up with what folks are saying, though...

"Robert M. Gary" wrote

You guys on this board are as bad as the people
on the news with wild &*($ guesses that are useless.

Perhaps, but the motivation is much different, and much more justified.
They are trying to understand, and the news people are trying to..... to...

What is it that they are trying to do, again? g
--
Jim in NC

Morgans writes:

Perhaps, but the motivation is much different, and much more justified.
They are trying to understand, and the news people are trying to..... to...

Many people in this newsgroup are trying to win, not to understand.

On Aug 31, 8:44 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
http://fox40.trb.com/

In an amazing coincidence, a Sacramento TV station was at Cameron Park
airport filming background for a story about the crash of a plane that
had departed earlier in the day and caught a second crash on video. Go
to the web site and click on "Cameron Park Plane Crash" on the right
side.

It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I watched it a couple of times...

I wouldnt discount that he caught some sort of sheer or something else
coming over the terrain.

A lot depends on how he was loaded and the DA...but there could be
other factors.

Robert

On Aug 31, 6:44 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
\
It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.

Most takeoffs are downwind because the socks at each end of the field
usually face away from each other. Do you want downwind 13 or downwind
31?? High-density altitude airport? If this wasn't so sad, I'd laugh
at that comment. Its amazing how much ignorant statements you see from
pilots, often worse than the news.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

Most takeoffs are downwind because the socks at each end of the field
usually face away from each other. Do you want downwind 13 or downwind
31?? High-density altitude airport? If this wasn't so sad, I'd laugh
at that comment. Its amazing how much ignorant statements you see from
pilots, often worse than the news.

My guess, from watching the video and hearing about the number of people
aboard, was that the aircraft was overloaded. And the only reason anyone died
was probably that the plane flipped over, otherwise they might have all walked
away from it.

My guess, from watching the video and hearing about the number of people
aboard, was that the aircraft was overloaded. And the only reason anyone died
was probably that the plane flipped over, otherwise they might have all walked
away from it.

Why guess when you can fire up your simulator and tell us exactly what
happens at 107 F and 230 lbs overweight at Cameron park with a
tailwind?

Somebody please correct my facts about this accident if you have hard data:

The date on the video is 30 August, last Thursday.

From the shadows, it appears that the accident occurred between noon and 2
pm.

In Grass Valley, it was 94 dF at that time, and Cameron Park is about 1700
feet lower. Presuming a standard lapse rate of 3.5 dF per thousand feet,
the temperature at Cameron was about 100 dF.

Altimeter setting at that time in Grass Valley was 30.06 and I doubt that it
changed much between here and 25 miles south. That would make the density
altitude somewhere in the vicinity of 4100 feet.

Cameron Park winds were most likely light; we had been reporting winds on
Thursday most of the morning and early afternoon at no more than 5 to 8
knots. From the hair ruffling of the one "sputtering" witness I'd say that
was about right.

The aircraft appeared to be an A36. The performance charts for a density
altitude of 4100 feet showed that the aircraft should have required about
2100 feet of runway roll with a 5 knot tailwind and a climb thereafter of
1000 fpm.

Cameron Park is a bitchkitty coming in or departing on either end.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
http://fox40.trb.com/

In an amazing coincidence, a Sacramento TV station was at Cameron Park
airport filming background for a story about the crash of a plane that
had departed earlier in the day and caught a second crash on video. Go
to the web site and click on "Cameron Park Plane Crash" on the right
side.

It sure looks like the pilot was taking off from a high-density
altitude airport with no flaps, downwind.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"