Which aircraft will live in history forever?

"Cub Driver" wrote:
|
| Another good example is
| the Brabazon.
|
| I'd forgotten that one. Did you know that it was the Brabazon
| Committee that laid down the specs for the plane that became the
| Comet? (The first prototype actually seated 20 passengers.)
|
| Be interesting to know how the how the Airbus evolved. Was that too a
| government committee?
|
| I suppose aircraft design is now more craft than art, whereas in the
| 1940s you built the plane first and then discovered whether or not it
| would fly.


The Brabazon committee proposed a series of different civil aircraft
types that would be needed in a post war world. One of them became the
Comet (high speed mail carrier), another became the Airspeed Ambassador
(the Brabazon IIA, a DC-3 replacement) and one became the Vickers
Viscount (the Brabazon IIB)..... The committee I believe specified the
target market that may or may not have ever existed in the post war
world.

"Brett" wrote in message
...
"Cub Driver" wrote:



The Brabazon committee proposed a series of different civil aircraft
types that would be needed in a post war world. One of them became the
Comet (high speed mail carrier), another became the Airspeed Ambassador
(the Brabazon IIA, a DC-3 replacement) and one became the Vickers
Viscount (the Brabazon IIB)..... The committee I believe specified the
target market that may or may not have ever existed in the post war
world.



The Type III , for Empire and Commonwealth routes was of
course the Bristol Brittania

The Brabazon committee was put together in 1943 because it was
realised that the wartime agreement with the USA they transport
aircraft would be supplied from US manufacturing while Britain
concentrated on bomber and fighter production would leave
UK manufacturers at a disadvantage in the post war era.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
| "Brett" wrote in message
| ...
| "Cub Driver" wrote:
|
|
|
| The Brabazon committee proposed a series of different civil aircraft
| types that would be needed in a post war world. One of them became
the
| Comet (high speed mail carrier), another became the Airspeed
Ambassador
| (the Brabazon IIA, a DC-3 replacement) and one became the Vickers
| Viscount (the Brabazon IIB)..... The committee I believe specified
the
| target market that may or may not have ever existed in the post war
| world.
|
|
|
| The Type III , for Empire and Commonwealth routes was of
| course the Bristol Brittania

The Britannia wasn't designed and built to meet the Brabazon Committee
Type III (it was the only type that didn't generate an "airframe"). The
Britannia was designed and built to satisfy a later requirement
generated by BOAC.

| The Brabazon committee was put together in 1943 because it was
| realised that the wartime agreement with the USA they transport
| aircraft would be supplied from US manufacturing while Britain
| concentrated on bomber and fighter production would leave
| UK manufacturers at a disadvantage in the post war era.

And the two aircraft that can be considered commercial successes from
those committee meetings were the Vickers Viscount (Type IIB) and de
Havilland Dove (Type VB). A committee specification that resulted in two
commercial successes out of seven sounds like the committee was a lot
better at its job than history reports (its always the Bristol Brabazon
that gets the headline).

"Brett" wrote in message
...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
| "Brett" wrote in message
| ...
| "Cub Driver" wrote:
|
|
|
| The Brabazon committee proposed a series of different civil aircraft
| types that would be needed in a post war world. One of them became
the
| Comet (high speed mail carrier), another became the Airspeed
Ambassador
| (the Brabazon IIA, a DC-3 replacement) and one became the Vickers
| Viscount (the Brabazon IIB)..... The committee I believe specified
the
| target market that may or may not have ever existed in the post war
| world.
|
|
|
| The Type III , for Empire and Commonwealth routes was of
| course the Bristol Brittania

The Britannia wasn't designed and built to meet the Brabazon Committee
Type III (it was the only type that didn't generate an "airframe"). The
Britannia was designed and built to satisfy a later requirement
generated by BOAC.


Not really.

The Brittania design aka Bristol Type 175 was designed by Bristol
to meet the Brabazon III requirement. Ironically the Brabazon
committee cancelled this requirement fearing it would be
a costly failure and while the design was indeed put forward
to BOAC the order for the initial prototypes came from the
Ministry of Supply

| The Brabazon committee was put together in 1943 because it was
| realised that the wartime agreement with the USA they transport
| aircraft would be supplied from US manufacturing while Britain
| concentrated on bomber and fighter production would leave
| UK manufacturers at a disadvantage in the post war era.

And the two aircraft that can be considered commercial successes from
those committee meetings were the Vickers Viscount (Type IIB) and de
Havilland Dove (Type VB). A committee specification that resulted in two
commercial successes out of seven sounds like the committee was a lot
better at its job than history reports (its always the Bristol Brabazon
that gets the headline).


Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
| "Brett" wrote in message
| ...
| "Keith Willshaw" wrote:
| | "Brett" wrote in message
| | ...
| | "Cub Driver" wrote:
| |
| |
| |
| | The Brabazon committee proposed a series of different civil
aircraft
| | types that would be needed in a post war world. One of them
became
| the
| | Comet (high speed mail carrier), another became the Airspeed
| Ambassador
| | (the Brabazon IIA, a DC-3 replacement) and one became the
Vickers
| | Viscount (the Brabazon IIB)..... The committee I believe
specified
| the
| | target market that may or may not have ever existed in the post
war
| | world.
| |
| |
| |
| | The Type III , for Empire and Commonwealth routes was of
| | course the Bristol Brittania
|
| The Britannia wasn't designed and built to meet the Brabazon
Committee
| Type III (it was the only type that didn't generate an "airframe").
The
| Britannia was designed and built to satisfy a later requirement
| generated by BOAC.
|
|
| Not really.

Yes really, the requirement and design came AFTER the war and it was
BOAC's design requirements that were embodied in specification 2/47.

| The Brittania design aka Bristol Type 175 was designed by Bristol
| to meet the Brabazon III requirement. Ironically the Brabazon
| committee cancelled this requirement fearing it would be
| a costly failure and while the design was indeed put forward
| to BOAC the order for the initial prototypes came from the
| Ministry of Supply

Because BOAC requirement was for an aircraft with an in service date of
1954 and BOAC was not prepared to risk "its future" on an order of at
least 25 production aircraft that the MoS originally demanded without
seeing it "fly" and your comments do not show that the Britannia was
designed to meet the Brabazon Type III airframe.

| | The Brabazon committee was put together in 1943 because it was
| | realised that the wartime agreement with the USA they transport
| | aircraft would be supplied from US manufacturing while Britain
| | concentrated on bomber and fighter production would leave
| | UK manufacturers at a disadvantage in the post war era.
|
| And the two aircraft that can be considered commercial successes
from
| those committee meetings were the Vickers Viscount (Type IIB) and de
| Havilland Dove (Type VB). A committee specification that resulted in
two
| commercial successes out of seven sounds like the committee was a
lot
| better at its job than history reports (its always the Bristol
Brabazon
| that gets the headline).

Well, Air Travel was a different proposition to the Brits. The
purpose of Imperial Airways/B.O.A.C. was to deliver Official Mail and
the occasional King's Messenger to the far-flung reaches (But stopping
at every villiage along the way) of the Empire. ..... fewer passengers than a
DC-4. (A very well stocked Bar, no doubt, and servants up the
Ying-Yang.

If I remember correctly what I read a long time ago, the Brits ran a
flying boat service pre-WW II from Capetown northward, up the Nile, to
London, and probably other lines as well. Huge boats, four or five
stories high, and they carried about eight passengers.

vince norris

"Bjørnar" wrote in message
...
Scott Ferrin wrote in
:

Wright Flyer
B-29 (nuked Japan)
U-2 (Cold War Symbol)
Concord
SR-71
Harrier (First real VTOL)
B-52 (if it ever *becomes* "history")
Me 262
X-1
X-15
KC-135


(there are lots of candidates such as the F-4, Mig-21, Zero, P-51,
etc. etc. but I think the above are unique and for that reason will
stand out)

And, perhaps, the most noteworthy aircrafts in history?

Spitfire (Battle of Britain)
DC-3 Dakota (worlds workhorse and lifesaviour)
Fokker Dr.1 (Red Baron)


Regards...

Just refinding (if that's even a word) this group, In addition to the
tribute to the DC-3 (C-47) I'm glad to see someone point out that the F-4
Phantom should be included. Although my 4 years service in the AF in the
early 70's was primarily SR-71 EMR shop the F-4's were the ones making the
real headlines at the time in SEA. What a workhorse...And I say that with
affection because it saved so many of our guys lives on the ground. Also,
the Concorde - we now have one at the Museum of Flight - what a sight that
machine is and certainly served with distinction!
Thanks...
RichT

There's an article on the most "historic" aircraft at:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/990865.asp...20031949&cp1=1

Brett wrote:

And the two aircraft that can be considered commercial successes from
those committee meetings were the Vickers Viscount (Type IIB) and de
Havilland Dove (Type VB). A committee specification that resulted in two
commercial successes out of seven sounds like the committee was a lot
better at its job than history reports (its always the Bristol Brabazon
that gets the headline).

I saw a Dove once. It was in a Lebanese air force hangar at Beirut,
and full of pigeon **** and bullet holes. Sad, really.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

"Andrew Chaplin" wrote:
| Brett wrote:
|
| And the two aircraft that can be considered commercial successes
from
| those committee meetings were the Vickers Viscount (Type IIB) and de
| Havilland Dove (Type VB). A committee specification that resulted in
two
| commercial successes out of seven sounds like the committee was a
lot
| better at its job than history reports (its always the Bristol
Brabazon
| that gets the headline).
|
| I saw a Dove once. It was in a Lebanese air force hangar at Beirut,

The Lebanese air force had Devons :-)

| and full of pigeon **** and bullet holes. Sad, really.