Hilarious

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Yep. Other than an occasional lemon, people who think the US builds
crap are basically living projected expectations. They expect that
the cars are crap, so they think they are.

I don't think anyone expects that their 5-figure purchase is goint to be
crap. Yet, Just reading through the various stories in this thread
suggests that the "ay yi yi's" have it.

"ay yi yi's"?

anyway, reading the stories in this thread, I'm struck by how many people
think today's cars are crap based on their personal experiences decades
ago.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Recently, Morgans posted:

"Dave" wrote

I'd have to disagree with that. I bought a new Ford Thunderbird in
1992. It has been my daily driver ever since, and now has 180K miles.
Other than an Idle Motor (part of the fuel injection) and a wheel
bearing, it has needed nothing other than tires and brakes and normal
maintenance. Still has the original belts and hoses.

Would I buy another one? You bet your ass I would!

Yep. Other than an occasional lemon, people who think the US builds
crap are basically living projected expectations. They expect that
the cars are crap, so they think they are.

I don't think anyone expects that their 5-figure purchase is goint to be
crap. Yet, Just reading through the various stories in this thread
suggests that the "ay yi yi's" have it.

--
Neil

Recently, Bob Noel posted:

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

Yep. Other than an occasional lemon, people who think the US
builds crap are basically living projected expectations. They
expect that the cars are crap, so they think they are.

I don't think anyone expects that their 5-figure purchase is goint
to be crap. Yet, Just reading through the various stories in this
thread suggests that the "ay yi yi's" have it.

"ay yi yi's"?

anyway, reading the stories in this thread, I'm struck by how many
people think today's cars are crap based on their personal
experiences decades ago.

You know the old sayings, "Once burned, twice shy", "Fool me once, shame
on you...", etc. There are reasons why those sayings persist.

--
Neil

I'd have to disagree with that. I bought a new Ford Thunderbird in
1992. It has been my daily driver ever since, and now has 180K miles.
Other than an Idle Motor (part of the fuel injection) and a wheel
bearing, it has needed nothing other than tires and brakes and normal
maintenance. Still has the original belts and hoses.

Would I buy another one? You bet your ass I would!

*Yep. *Other than an occasional lemon, people who think the US builds crap
are basically living projected expectations. *They expect that the cars are
crap, so they think they are.

American cars are now good, solid, reliable vehicles. Big vehicles,
like my Ford Econoline van, are built like tanks, and last forever.
They are very nice to drive -- so long as you don't have to fuel
them.

Small American cars, OTOH, like my Ford Mustang, seem to have trouble
with fit and finish. The drive train seems to be okay (not stellar),
but the interiors are cheap, and things just don't fit together as
well as in my Subaru or Toyota. They're all evolving, though, and I
truly hope the American manufacturers get it together -- because light
vehicles are the future.

Although there will always be demand for light trucks, most of the
folks you see driving around in their big F-350s are profilers (even
here in Iowa) who probably wish they hadn't bought a vehicle that
costs $70 to fill. Demand for those high-profit-margin vehicles is
already in the dumpster, and it's only gonna get worse as fuel prices
soar -- so I sure hope new, efficient vehicles like the "Volt" are in
the pipeline.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote in news:c980333e-fb24-4f6f-9516-
:




Although there will always be demand for light trucks, most of the
folks you see driving around in their big F-350s are profilers (even
here in Iowa) who probably wish they hadn't bought a vehicle that
costs $70 to fill.


Yeah, you're a real credit to aviation there Jay.

Bertie

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:47 GMT, "John Mazor"
wrote:

My first new car was a 1968 Chevy Nova. Nothing fancy anywhere on it, not the best
performing car by any means, but it was cheap, reliable, and adequate for my needs at
the

I bought a new Ford Mustang back in that era. The one with the long
nose. Beautiful car. The right front quarter panel rusted out in less
than 9 months. The hole was big enough to stick you fist through
without touching the edges. Ford said "not to worry", they'd cover
half the cost of the repair. By going to a regular body shop I
managed to get it done for about a quarter less than that. I
replaced it with an LTD as the family was growing. Drove that one
with no problems until the wheels were about to fall off.

In 81 or 2 I purchased another Mustang. On the way to work in a heavy
rain I noticed the floor was getting wet. I set up an appointment
with the dealer who promised to fix it right away. As I had a week end
I decided to look at it myself. I pulled the seats and carpet out and
what did I find? The floor pan had never been welded in or sealed to
the body. You could see daylight all the way down both sides of the
thing. How do you not do that with a unibody? Maybe the Mustang
wasn't unibody yet...MY memory gets foggy that far back. When I took
it to the dealer it was without the interior installed with the
exception of the driver's seat. When they saw the problem it was "call
the factory" and I drove a loaner for a week. At any rate I traded
for a nice new Z-28 with T-tops and a Corvette engine. (I was single
again :-)) ). I had less than 200 miles on it and was just pulling
off the US-27 expressway at Mt Pleasant when there was a loud bang
and the car started shaking so bad it was difficult to control.

On the front of the engine there is a 3 shiv pulley. This pulley is
constructed of sheet metal that has been rolled and welded. Well, it's
supposed to be welded. It had only been tacked on one side. The
resultant flexing had caused two of the three shivs to separate in a
rather spectacular fashion. Fortunately that big fiberglass hood was
strong enough to prevent them from going through. Unfortunately it
was dark, cold, and I had no tools. Fortunately the first car by was
some one I knew and he had tools. We removed the two belts.
Fortunately the one left took care of the essentials. Of course the
dealer had to order a new pulley and that would take a week or two to
get. Soooo... I took the pulley off, and we trimmed it back to one
shive that was nice, neat, and *balanced*. Surprisingly that was the
only problem I ever had with that car.

My current car is a 99 Toyota 4-Runner (relatively small to mid size
SUV) that gets used like a truck. while my wife drives a Toyota
The 4-Runner has near 85,000 and maintenance is no more than a couple
hundred dollars per year including oil changes, plus it's been long
paid for. No problems so far, but it does need to go in to have the
rust proofing redone.

I've owned a lot of cars since my first one in 58 (56 Ford with a
police interceptor engine) to the current 4-Runner. The only ones
without problems were a 62 Bonivelle convertible, the Ford LTD, and
the 4 Runner. The only problem I had with the Trans Am (Car prior to
the 4 -Runner) was what they call the replacement for the distributor.
It's on the bottom front of the engine. It's susceptible to water and
right where it's likely to get hit by water. That was the only problem
I had with that car. I had close to 90,000 on it and had planned on
many more years with it, that is until the GMC Jimmy with all 4
burning rubber pulled out in front of me and put the right front wheel
back in the passenger compartment with me. Moved the whole firewall
back against the bottom of the dash and blew out the windshield.

Roger (K8RI)

Sounds like you encountered a lot of the "keep 'em moving and we'll fix the assembly line
mistakes under warranty" defects. Even allowing for nostalgia and reverse-nostalgia
effects, the only consistent aspect of this thread is to prove that when it comes to car
quality, "Your Mileage May Vary" and for the most part there is no rhyme or reason to
which specific domestic cars are affected.

time. It was simple enough that I learned basic do-it-yourself maintenance on it. It
was
still in good running and body condition when I sold it 6 years later. This was before
the industry really went south in the 70s. However, I remember a mechanically minded
cousin advising us in the late 50s or early 60s that the first thing you should do when
you get a new car was take a wrench and screwdriver and tighten everything you could get
at. I guess even then the shop floor instructions were "just keep 'em moving, we'll fix
anything you miss at the dealer under warranty."

Of course, that meant that millions of PO'd customers had to have things fixed. So when
Japanese cars started appearing without those minor manufacturing glitches because of
their attention to detail, even a mediocre import carried an aura of quality compared to
the U.S. equivalents. Their comparatively better attention to details in design vs.
domestic models further eroded the U.S. car image. (OTOH, in the late 80s my wife
bought
a Japanese import that we sold less than a year later because as soon as we drove it
home,
the finish started speckling from exposure on the boat to salt water and/or acid rain.)

U.S. car quality has improved significantly from the "slap 'em together and move 'em
out"
days. I'm still driving a 1995 domestic sedan. The exterior and interior are a bit
worn
but it still runs reliably and has more than adequate performance. Whenever anyone
tells
me that it's time to get a new one, I point out that it's paid for and I average less
than
$2k a year on maintenance, which is about 3+ months worth of new car payments when you
add
in the increased insurance and taxes (both dirt cheap now). YMMV, but when it goes I'm
definitely not going to automatically rule out a domestic model.

"LWG" wrote in message
. ..
That is to say the products made in developing countries bear little of
the cost of the social structure we expect in this country. Products from
developing countries can undercut price, or use higher-priced materials
and still be competitive on price because of vastly reduced labor costs.
The sort of jobs which involve the greatest social benefits are usually
the first to leave, as the manufacturers vote with their feet.

So we have an enormously fat, featherbed laden "social structure" that makes
our goods uncompetitive; how is that an argument for American workers?

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:17:47 -0500, "Blueskies"
wrote:


"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ...

Low labor cost in Japan gave them an advantage over American labor.
Now Korean labor prices are giving Japan competition. However the
Koreans are already worried about China and India. And so it goes...

Eventually it'll all even out, if a pandemic, nature, and accident, or
we don't wipe ourselves out.

Roger (K8RI)




The country with the lowest costs last will 'win'. Maybe that is why the dollar is so weak these days....

One of the reasons. Once India and China are up to speed their costs
will rise. Will Africa become a manufacturing nation? Some South
American country or will the advancement of India and China be the
final stabilizing influences where we will all rise (or sink)
together?

Roger (K8RI)

In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

anyway, reading the stories in this thread, I'm struck by how many
people think today's cars are crap based on their personal
experiences decades ago.

You know the old sayings, "Once burned, twice shy", "Fool me once, shame
on you...", etc. There are reasons why those sayings persist.

Understood.

However, eventually people will realize that what happened in the 60's and
70's doesn't necessarily have any relation to the quality of today's cars.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Bob Noel wrote:
In article ,
"Neil Gould" wrote:

anyway, reading the stories in this thread, I'm struck by how many
people think today's cars are crap based on their personal
experiences decades ago.

You know the old sayings, "Once burned, twice shy", "Fool me once, shame
on you...", etc. There are reasons why those sayings persist.

Understood.

However, eventually people will realize that what happened in the 60's and
70's doesn't necessarily have any relation to the quality of today's cars.


Below is the J.D. Powers Overall Mechanical Quality ratings for new 2007
cars that got either 4 or 5 stars (or what ever they call their rating
marks).

Lexus

BMW

Buick

Honda

Infiniti

Lincoln

Mercedes-Benz

Mercury

Porsche

Toyota