The Differences Between PPLicensing And Learning

I have been reading the various threads about spins, forced landings, etc
and talking with CFIs. The road to a PPL is preset in requirements by FAA.
I see that most people are happy to do nothing more than that. Outside of
the cost factors, I find this much more than curious considering the
consequences. You can get killed, that one keeps jumping out at me

I am asking the group for assistance in developing a list of instructional
and solo experiences, testing, mandatory reading.....if you ran the FAA,
what would you require in a near-perfect world that a PPL would require? I
am a zero-hour wannabe pilot FYI

For a start, I won't begin my first instruction until I can do the
following:

Pass all tests with a 95% minimum
Handle with ease all traffic control and similar commo
Dissect the anatomy of my training aircraft
Understand what and how the instrumentation works (shortcomings included)
Own all the fundamentally necessary flight gear (i.e carry-ons in flight
bag or on person)
Obtain hours in flight simulation
More...enough for now.

TIA. The group is an extremely valuable resource; I sincerely doubt I would
be so focused and confident without your past, present and future work
here.
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WJRFlyBoy wrote:
I have been reading the various threads about spins, forced landings, etc
and talking with CFIs. The road to a PPL is preset in requirements by FAA.
I see that most people are happy to do nothing more than that. Outside of
the cost factors, I find this much more than curious considering the
consequences. You can get killed, that one keeps jumping out at me

I am asking the group for assistance in developing a list of instructional
and solo experiences, testing, mandatory reading.....if you ran the FAA,
what would you require in a near-perfect world that a PPL would require? I
am a zero-hour wannabe pilot FYI

The current requirements for obtaining a PPL are pretty well honed
after these number of years. I see them being generally on target
as long as the instructor(s) is/are practicing the best and latest
techniques. So much of what a student learns is a direct result
of the competence and experience level of the CFI so if I *could*
change anything I would increase the aeronautical experience
requirements for obtaining a CFI to something more reasonable, say
at least 500.

With the addition of the Recreational Pilot and more recently the
Sport Pilot certificates, you now have several levels of entry into
aviation. The FAA has any number of excellent texts and publications
on flight training subjects. In addition you have quite a number
of excellent 3rd party textbooks and DVD courses to learn every
aspect of aviation.

For a start, I won't begin my first instruction until I can do the
following:

Pass all tests with a 95% minimum
Handle with ease all traffic control and similar commo
Dissect the anatomy of my training aircraft
Understand what and how the instrumentation works (shortcomings included)
Own all the fundamentally necessary flight gear (i.e carry-ons in flight
bag or on person)
Obtain hours in flight simulation
More...enough for now.

I think you are being a bit unrealistic here. Part of the reason
for working with a good CFI is that he/she can guide the learning
process to make it faster and more effective for you. Each of the
various subject areas reinforce each other and the flight training
is part of the building block process.

I'm not saying it can't be done the way you want to do it but
I think it will take you a *lot* longer to obtain your PPL if you
try to do it that way.

TIA. The group is an extremely valuable resource; I sincerely doubt I would
be so focused and confident without your past, present and future work
here.

Good Luck.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:32:00 GMT, kontiki wrote:

For a start, I won't begin my first instruction until I can do the
following:

Pass all tests with a 95% minimum
Handle with ease all traffic control and similar commo
Dissect the anatomy of my training aircraft
Understand what and how the instrumentation works (shortcomings included)
Own all the fundamentally necessary flight gear (i.e carry-ons in flight
bag or on person)
Obtain hours in flight simulation
More...enough for now.

I think you are being a bit unrealistic here. Part of the reason
for working with a good CFI is that he/she can guide the learning
process to make it faster and more effective for you. Each of the
various subject areas reinforce each other and the flight training
is part of the building block process.

I'm not saying it can't be done the way you want to do it but
I think it will take you a *lot* longer to obtain your PPL if you
try to do it that way.

Thanks but I may have missed telling you that length of time is not a
criteria for me. This approach to put so-called pilots licensed and into
the air using words like quick is exactly what I find myself up against.

Not beating on those that either need to get their PPL rapidly or choose to
do so, when talking with CFIs, they are geared to quick rather than
thorough. An example is getting a college degree, you can choose the
minimalists route or many more credit hours than required as you wish.
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Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:43:14 -0500, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

when talking with CFIs, they are geared to quick rather than
thorough.

I personally appreciate that attitude in a CFI considering that time really
is money in this business... your money. His job is to get you to the
checkride ready to pass and if he's good he'll know exactly what that
takes.

But your thinking is correct, there is much, much more to learn than the
minimum to pass the checkride and that will be up to you on your own. How
much extra frosting you want to put on the cake is what makes the
difference between a pilot and a good pilot.


--
Dallas

"Dallas" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:43:14 -0500, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

when talking with CFIs, they are geared to quick rather than
thorough.

I personally appreciate that attitude in a CFI considering that time
really
is money in this business... your money. His job is to get you to the
checkride ready to pass and if he's good he'll know exactly what that
takes.


And every instructor I've ever known will be MORE than happy to take your
$30-$40 for any additional training you might elect to take. I'm not aware
of one that would turn down somebody (student, private, commercial etc) who
wants additional training.


-c

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:20:46 -0800, gatt wrote:

"Dallas" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:43:14 -0500, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

when talking with CFIs, they are geared to quick rather than
thorough.

I personally appreciate that attitude in a CFI considering that time
really
is money in this business... your money. His job is to get you to the
checkride ready to pass and if he's good he'll know exactly what that
takes.

And every instructor I've ever known will be MORE than happy to take your
$30-$40 for any additional training you might elect to take. I'm not aware
of one that would turn down somebody (student, private, commercial etc) who
wants additional training.

-c

The assumption might be that you have the right CFI, if not, it may be more
time but for what value? I'm hopeful by the time I get my PPL that I can
also access exactly where my deficiencies are and that will target the
right CFI.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:38:17 -0600, Dallas wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:43:14 -0500, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

when talking with CFIs, they are geared to quick rather than
thorough.

I personally appreciate that attitude in a CFI considering that time really
is money in this business... your money. His job is to get you to the
checkride ready to pass and if he's good he'll know exactly what that
takes.

But your thinking is correct, there is much, much more to learn than the
minimum to pass the checkride and that will be up to you on your own. How
much extra frosting you want to put on the cake is what makes the
difference between a pilot and a good pilot.

This self-responsibility is spot on, Dallas and being a businessman that
bills on rate, I appreciate your comment and the CFIs/schools realities and
is part of the frustration in maximizing time to effort.

I finished a correspondence on email with another poster who had the
typical semi-horror story, I could see wasted $$$, time and effort and not
by any fault of his own, I don't believe. He, like me, didn't have the
assessment skills; I am trying to overcome as much of that with threads
like this one and overkill on the academic side.

Other than that, it's luck and Divine Providence, neither of which I can
claim any surplus
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message
...
I have been reading the various threads about spins, forced landings, etc
and talking with CFIs. The road to a PPL is preset in requirements by FAA.
I see that most people are happy to do nothing more than that.

Where do you see that?

Outside of the cost factors, I find this much more than curious
considering the
consequences. You can get killed, that one keeps jumping out at me

I don't follow. Reading accident reports, I see very few incidents of pilots
getting killed because they had inadequate training (unless you consider VFR
into IMC).


I am asking the group for assistance in developing a list of instructional
and solo experiences, testing, mandatory reading.....if you ran the FAA,
what would you require in a near-perfect world that a PPL would require?

I am a zero-hour wannabe pilot FYI

Reminds me of the couple with no kids telling me how to raise my teenagers.

For a start, I won't begin my first instruction until I can do the
following:

Pass all tests with a 95% minimum

Including the practical?

Handle with ease all traffic control and similar commo

How do you do that without ever getting into a plane?
Dissect the anatomy of my training aircraft
Understand what and how the instrumentation works (shortcomings included)
Own all the fundamentally necessary flight gear (i.e carry-ons in flight
bag or on person)

Obtain hours in flight simulation

See Dudley's comments regarding pre-solo students and simulators.
More...enough for now.

I can see hour your program will save lives. Unfortunately the only reason
is that there will be few or no pilots due to unreasonable traiing
requirements.

Steve Foley wrote:

Understand what and how the instrumentation works (shortcomings included)
Own all the fundamentally necessary flight gear (i.e carry-ons in flight
bag or on person)

Obtain hours in flight simulation

See Dudley's comments regarding pre-solo students and simulators.
More...enough for now.


Ye, a point I neglected to mention. We've already had one poster
here who had a disappointing discovery flight by going into it with
a severe case of overconfidence and unrealistic expectations due to
having spent so many hours 'perfecting' his technique on a simulator.

Except for the purpose of explaining how the COM and NAV radios and
instrumentation works by a CFI, simulator time should be avoided
by pre-solo students. Post solo, other than to experiment with
navigation methods, simulators should be avoided by students also.

By simulators, I am talking about the basic PC based units, not
the multi-million dollar, full motion simulators used to train
commercial pilots. But even they should not be used pre-solo.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:34:16 GMT, kontiki wrote:

Understand what and how the instrumentation works (shortcomings included)
Own all the fundamentally necessary flight gear (i.e carry-ons in flight
bag or on person)

Obtain hours in flight simulation

See Dudley's comments regarding pre-solo students and simulators.
More...enough for now.


Ye, a point I neglected to mention. We've already had one poster
here who had a disappointing discovery flight by going into it with
a severe case of overconfidence and unrealistic expectations due to
having spent so many hours 'perfecting' his technique on a simulator.

Thanks for the heads up.

Except for the purpose of explaining how the COM and NAV radios and
instrumentation works by a CFI, simulator time should be avoided
by pre-solo students. Post solo, other than to experiment with
navigation methods, simulators should be avoided by students also.

Interesting opinion.

By simulators, I am talking about the basic PC based units, not
the multi-million dollar, full motion simulators used to train
commercial pilots. But even they should not be used pre-solo.

Followed by another one.

So it is fair to say that the outcome of pre-solo sim is generally
negative?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!