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#81
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I suspect you would need to talk to my students regarding that
assertion. It is a leap to unsupported conclusions. For you to extend Your students might want to check out following too: "The Origins of the American Military Coup of 2012". The award for this study was presented by,well,by a General named Colin Powell. |
#82
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After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following: For your further edification as you seem to enjoy throwing the neocon label around, here is some info on what neo-conservatives are really all about. (one might note that Kristol started the movement in the '70s.) First off...how 'bout dropping this notion that I'm "throwing the neocon label around," you've finally taken the time to see that it's NOT simply a liberal pejorative. Quote:
"national interest" is at any given moment. Pursuing a foreign policy, i.e. pre-emptive wars on the other side of the globe while couching it in terms of self-defense, does NOT pass the common sense test to me (nor would it pass this test to most inhabitants of this planet). Quote:
Locke's "Second Treatise of Civil Government." Simply being the Superpower du jour is not license to discard the moral principals your nation built its reputation on. I suspect gwb & co are now trying to get the UN involved because he recognizes that he could lose the election in Nov, IOW just to save his political ass. Quote:
justice and the american way, are livid that democratic nations would oppose the "american view," of how the world should be. I call that arrogance, but will amend that to hubris for the sake of polite conversation. Quote:
element?" It would appear that you have incorrectly identified yourself as "traditional [conservative]" according to Kristol. Quote:
within the citations) to writings by neocons during Clinton's administration where they called for taking SH down "on principal." For Kristol to suggest that gwb & co did not "anticipate this role" at all or specifically WRT to Iraq is false. That is simply political nonsense. But thanks for the cite. Robey |
#83
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After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following: Here's a link you might find interesting--it's a balanced (rare that!) discussion of the possibility of an AQ-Iraq connection. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...lndzv.asp?pg=1 Read it...Tenet reports'credible evidence, reliable information, etc...IOW a "slam dunk." But nobody can produce this evidence. Hayes contradicts Clarke. LtCol Kwiatkowski reported that the political neocon appointees that setup shop in the Pentagon cherry-picked the bits that fit their pre-determined outcome. I suppose Pakastani Intelligence officers that happen to be muslim and provided assistance to AQ and Taliban in Afghanistan are proof of Pres Musharraf's support of AQ? The logic follows the same as Mr Hayes article. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia allows wahhabi islam (OBL's particular brand) to be openly taught so that makes them co-conspirators? Hey we've got evidence to support attacking current allies. We bring democracy to Iraq to fight terrorism while closely allied with the monarchy of SA...common sense...not to me. Goes back to the nation building theme. Regarding my contention that we were at peace up until 9/11... Your first sentence says "YES" and your last sentence says "no". I remember the explosion quite well. Who the enemy was that bombed USAFE HQ? Who did Reagan declare war on? Did Waco, Ruby Ridge, or McVeigh's bombing in OKC mean we were in a civil war? Not at all. If you chose to use Beirut, Khobar Towers, the USS Cole as evidence of war, does it seem logical that we were at war (or should be) with the entire Middle East except for Israel and maybe Jordan? Before you answer you should recall that gwb said in his 2003 SOTU, "As we fight this war, we will remember where it began -- here, in our own country." I'm guessing the gwb thought we were at peace. I won't disagree on the "bad decisions" at Abu Ghraib. Lots of failures of leadership at all levels up to brigade commander. Ummm, SecDef Rumsfeld confessed that he was responsible. And this is one time I believe him. Dep SecDef Wolfowitz' visit to Abu Ghraib in Oct 2003 (photographed with the Bridgade CO) was probably a coincidence, he wouldn't actually learn anything about the operation (strictly need to know I guess). Plausible deniability. But the continued assertion that there was no plan for transition is tougher to accept. Of course there was a plan--an essential element of the Powell Doctrine is "exit strategy". The problem is that events don't always flow exactly the way the plan predicts. If that is a failure of leadership, then every plan ever devised exhibits the same problem. The bulk of our armed forces are not equipped for rebuilding or caretaker operations, absent civil affairs, MP, civil engineering. I dont' think gwb & co looked much beyond being greeted as liberators. I'm not disputing the great things our folks are doing to make life better for Iraqis. It just appears to be the sincere efforts of good guys rather than "the plan." I suspect you would need to talk to my students regarding that assertion. It is a leap to unsupported conclusions. No it was simply an observation, you gave no indication that you read any cite I provided (I've read all of yours...both?); but you did kinda give me the wave of the hand and the virtual "pfffttt." This post has been the most honest IMO exchange on this subject. I appreciate the effort. For you to extend my debate with you on this topic to some sort of student intimidation or doctrinaire requirements for successful grades is ridiculous. Not really, my political science advisor was a WWII infantry officer (Normandy to the Rhine) he came to dislike the military. He often initially dismissed opposing views without considering the message. Snip an excellent approach to thinking, but then there's this... Probably not the way it is taught in the Ivy League, but it's what happens where I work. Oh boy... |
#84
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Just for Ed:
"The Bush Administration has not made it easy on its supporters. David Brooks now admits that he was gripped with a "childish fantasy" about Iraq. Tucker Carlson is "ashamed" and "enraged" at himself. Tom Friedman, admitting to being "a little slow," is finally off the reservation. Die-hard Republican publicist William Kristol admits of Bush, "He did drive us into a ditch." The neocon fantasist and sometime Republican speechwriter Mark Helprin complains on the Wall Street Journal editorial page--the movement's Pravda--of "the inescapable fact that the war has been run incompetently, with an apparently deliberate contempt for history, strategy, and thought, and with too little regard for the American soldier, whose mounting casualties seem to have no effect on the boastfulness of the civilian leadership." http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i...607&s=alterman Walt |
#85
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"WalterM140" wrote in message ... Just for Ed: "The Bush Administration has not made it easy on its supporters. David Brooks now admits that he was gripped with a "childish fantasy" about Iraq. Tucker Carlson is "ashamed" and "enraged" at himself. Tom Friedman, admitting to being "a little slow," is finally off the reservation. Die-hard Republican publicist William Kristol admits of Bush, "He did drive us into a ditch." The neocon fantasist and sometime Republican speechwriter Mark Helprin complains on the Wall Street Journal editorial page--the movement's Pravda--of "the inescapable fact that the war has been run incompetently, with an apparently deliberate contempt for history, strategy, and thought, and with too little regard for the American soldier, whose mounting casualties seem to have no effect on the boastfulness of the civilian leadership." Casualties have been light. |
#86
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"WalterM140" wrote in message ... Just for Ed: "The Bush Administration has not made it easy on its supporters. David Brooks now admits that he was gripped with a "childish fantasy" about Iraq. Tucker Carlson is "ashamed" and "enraged" at himself. Tom Friedman, admitting to being "a little slow," is finally off the reservation. Die-hard Republican publicist William Kristol admits of Bush, "He did drive us into a ditch." The neocon fantasist and sometime Republican speechwriter Mark Helprin complains on the Wall Street Journal editorial page--the movement's Pravda--of "the inescapable fact that the war has been run incompetently, with an apparently deliberate contempt for history, strategy, and thought, and with too little regard for the American soldier, whose mounting casualties seem to have no effect on the boastfulness of the civilian leadership." Casualties have been light. More than 5,000 moms would disagree. Cheers --mike |
#87
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"Mike Dargan" wrote in message news:Hwcuc.16394$js4.14628@attbi_s51... More than 5,000 moms would disagree. Then more than 5,000 moms would be wrong. |
#88
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"Mike Dargan" wrote in message news:Hwcuc.16394$js4.14628@attbi_s51... More than 5,000 moms would disagree. 5,000 out of millions is a very small percentage. |
#89
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"Mike Dargan" wrote in message news:Hwcuc.16394$js4.14628@attbi_s51... More than 5,000 moms would disagree. Which 5,000 moms do you speak for? |
#90
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Mike Dargan" wrote in message news:Hwcuc.16394$js4.14628@attbi_s51... More than 5,000 moms would disagree. Which 5,000 moms do you speak for? Are you getting poli-sci credit for these postings? Cheers --mike |
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