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#81
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Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
: george wrote: On Jan 9, 5:34 am, Mxsmanic wrote: Sec. 91.21 Portable electronic devices. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft: (1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or (2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR. (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to-- (1) Portable voice recorders; (2) Hearing aids; (3) Heart pacemakers; (4) Electric shavers; or (5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. (c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft. That is the Reg. Self explanatory (1) Portable voice recorders; Is an iPod not a personal voice recorder? Yet all the airlines I've been on recently include it in the don't turn on until we say so list. One of the reasons the FAA don't like Ipods and their ilk is that if you are zoned out listening to music when an evacuation occurs, you might be a liability in the event. Rigth or wrong, it is one of the reasons. Bertie |
#82
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On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:09:03 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote in : george wrote: On Jan 9, 5:34 am, Mxsmanic wrote: Sec. 91.21 Portable electronic devices. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft: (1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or (2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR. (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to-- (1) Portable voice recorders; (2) Hearing aids; (3) Heart pacemakers; (4) Electric shavers; or (5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. (c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft. That is the Reg. Self explanatory (1) Portable voice recorders; Is an iPod not a personal voice recorder? Yet all the airlines I've been on recently include it in the don't turn on until we say so list. While portable voice recorders fall under Paragraph B, there is a report of an iPod causing interference in the cockpit: From: (Don Poitras) Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting Subject: Bizarre radio experience Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:26:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: ... There's only one thing left to try... I turn off my iPod that's plugged into the headset (not "Ride of the Valkyries", but Amy LaVere)... silence. Wow. Cool. Plug back in, "podunk..." Somehow the combination of iPod, wire and LightSpeed 30-3G was acting as a radio (a very crisp, loud radio) picking up multiple frequencies at once. I wish I had written down all the airport names so I could see how many I was hearing, but it was quite the cacophony. I called LightSpeed and the guy there had never had that reported before. |
#83
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Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder wrote in : george wrote: On Jan 9, 5:34 am, Mxsmanic wrote: Sec. 91.21 Portable electronic devices. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft: (1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or (2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR. (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to-- (1) Portable voice recorders; (2) Hearing aids; (3) Heart pacemakers; (4) Electric shavers; or (5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. (c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft. That is the Reg. Self explanatory (1) Portable voice recorders; Is an iPod not a personal voice recorder? Yet all the airlines I've been on recently include it in the don't turn on until we say so list. One of the reasons the FAA don't like Ipods and their ilk is that if you are zoned out listening to music when an evacuation occurs, you might be a liability in the event. Rigth or wrong, it is one of the reasons. Bertie I understand that but what I'm saying is the reg quoted above seems to me to specifically ALLOW personal voice recorders which is really all an iPod is. |
#85
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Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Gig 601XL Builder wrote in : george wrote: On Jan 9, 5:34 am, Mxsmanic wrote: Sec. 91.21 Portable electronic devices. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft: (1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or (2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR. (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to-- (1) Portable voice recorders; (2) Hearing aids; (3) Heart pacemakers; (4) Electric shavers; or (5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. (c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft. That is the Reg. Self explanatory (1) Portable voice recorders; Is an iPod not a personal voice recorder? Yet all the airlines I've been on recently include it in the don't turn on until we say so list. One of the reasons the FAA don't like Ipods and their ilk is that if you are zoned out listening to music when an evacuation occurs, you might be a liability in the event. Rigth or wrong, it is one of the reasons. Bertie I understand that but what I'm saying is the reg quoted above seems to me to specifically ALLOW personal voice recorders which is really all an iPod is. Mmm, They have had drives, though. Might make a difference. i don't know. Phones are definitely a PITA on board and I had a laptop dump an Omega database on me years ago. Eletricity and radio are something I shy away from though.. Bertie |
#86
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george wrote:
On Jan 7, 1:53 pm, Some Other Guy wrote: So you have hundreds of passenger devices on the network. Due to a bug, one or many may malfunction and cause a packet storm, either bringing down the network or causing unacceptable latency. High latency can cause autopilot oscillation and loss of control. Oops. We are talking about the flight systems of an aircraft with, as I suspect you're aware, two pilots who are there and are trained for such an eventuality. In other words, you think it's okay for an in flight entertainment system to cause the aircraft flight control systems to misbehave. This is where you and I disagree, and I have nothing more to say about that. |
#87
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On Jan 9, 12:19 pm, Some Other Guy wrote:
george wrote: We are talking about the flight systems of an aircraft with, as I suspect you're aware, two pilots who are there and are trained for such an eventuality. In other words, you think it's okay for an in flight entertainment system to cause the aircraft flight control systems to misbehave. No but that won't stop you making the claim. If such an unlikely event might occur the pilots will go through their drills. Computerised systems falling over is not a new thing That's why the aircrew are there and trained to handle such problems This is where you and I disagree, and I have nothing more to say about that. Promises |
#88
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On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:35:49 -0800 (PST), george
wrote in : If such an unlikely event might occur the pilots will go through their drills. Computerised systems falling over is not a new thing That's why the aircrew are there and trained to handle such problems In fly-by-wire aircraft there are no truly manual controls, are there? What if the flight crew found their attempts at control input ineffective do that a hypothetical hack? Are the interconnected systems designed to prevent the crew's loss of control to the automated systems? |
#89
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Larry Dighera wrote in
: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:35:49 -0800 (PST), george wrote in : If such an unlikely event might occur the pilots will go through their drills. Computerised systems falling over is not a new thing That's why the aircrew are there and trained to handle such problems In fly-by-wire aircraft there are no truly manual controls, are there? What if the flight crew found their attempts at control input ineffective do that a hypothetical hack? Are the interconnected systems designed to prevent the crew's loss of control to the automated systems? I know. Tirbe |
#90
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george writes:
If such an unlikely event might occur the pilots will go through their drills. There aren't any drills that would help. Computerised systems falling over is not a new thing That's why the aircrew are there and trained to handle such problems They are not trained to handle such problems. When the aircraft is controlled by computer and the computer fails, there isn't any training that will make any difference. |
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