New Garmin 396

Richard Kaplan wrote:

ButÂ*aÂ*lotÂ*ofÂ*pilotsÂ*doÂ*notÂ*like
kneeboards, no less equipment on their knees.

And those that are willing to use kneeboards use kneeboards. Admittedly, we
usually have second knees...

- Andrew

In article ine.com,
Andrew Gideon wrote:
That all being said, Garmin produces a very good, polished navigation
system that is hard to beat--in my opinion, none of the PDA-based
software products does navigation as cleanly.

That's true, but I still want a feature available via the PDA route and not
via the Garmin route: a backup AI. But then I fly club airplanes with 430s
installed, so when I think "handheld GPS" I'm thinking "backup"...and I
want as much backup as possible.


Honestly, if I had a 430/530 or other approach-certified GPS in my
panel, I don't know that I'd even invest in a hand held GPS. It might
be very nice to have your Garmin 396 interfaced with your 430/530,
GTX330, and SL30/SL40, but at some point I think the gadgetry reaches
the point of diminishing returns.



JKG

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
Honestly, if I had a 430/530 or other approach-certified GPS in my
panel, I don't know that I'd even invest in a hand held GPS. It might
be very nice to have your Garmin 396 interfaced with your 430/530,
GTX330, and SL30/SL40, but at some point I think the gadgetry reaches
the point of diminishing returns.

Garmin 396... WAAS capable
Garmin 430/530... WAAS ??? (someday. maybe.)

In article ,
john smith wrote:
Honestly, if I had a 430/530 or other approach-certified GPS in my
panel, I don't know that I'd even invest in a hand held GPS. It might
be very nice to have your Garmin 396 interfaced with your 430/530,
GTX330, and SL30/SL40, but at some point I think the gadgetry reaches
the point of diminishing returns.

Garmin 396... WAAS capable
Garmin 430/530... WAAS ??? (someday. maybe.)

Yes, I understand, which is one of the reasons that I DON'T have a 430
in my panel. I'm not sure how much WAAS buys you with a hand held.


JKG

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

I think that you're being disingenuous here.

Why, I never... !

I know plenty of folks who
aren't happy with the position they're now in with their 430s, for
example. I can give you plenty of example from years ago when I wasn't
completely satisfied with my Garmin products, because it was obvious
that Garmin did not intend to provide feature upgrades at a reasonable
price (in the portable market, this equated to a forklift upgrade for
Garmin products--how convenient.)

The G430/530 are the most popular, cost-effective, and reliable GA
devices of their kind built to date. But okay. (Shrug)

I continue to be amazed at the perception that Garmin's units don't run
software or run on some kind of operating system.

Whose perception is that?

Garmin's units do run
software, and that software has bugs.

No kidding... but the bugs generally aren't serious, and they're
usually addressed promptly. In 5 years of owning (and constantly using)
a 295, there's been precisely one time that a bug actually caused me to
reboot the unit. That bug was addressed in a firmware revision, by the
way. Folks running the CV rig will generally deal with quite a few more
"bugs."

I really don't hear that many
folks complaining about their AWM system "crapping out" anymore, but I'm
only a fairly recent user.

I hear it all the time... and read their forums, if you need more data
on that point.

And I have found modern Bluetooth systems to
be very reliable, without having to "mess with" or "manage" anything.

Consider yourself fortunate!

I
really don't understand where all of the alarming hype is coming from
surrounding these systems. I will admit that they aren't "one-touch"
systems and it does help to have an understanding of how they work, but
that's true for operating an aircraft as well.

What you're failing to recognize is that it helps to understand the
"appliance," the operating system, the specific hardware you're using
with the software, the Bluetooth setup, the configuration... these are
all pretty technical things to have to mess with compared to an
all-in-one box that requires NO special knowledge on the part of the
user. That's asking a lot of a marketplace which now has the choice
between the former and the latter.

As a guy who -- in a former life -- designed software interfaces, I
chuckle when I see gearheads frustrated that normal, everyday people
don't "RTFM." Frankly, the product should be good enough that most
folks can figure out the basic functionality WITHOUT having to RTFM.
Human nature won't change - we need devices which act as appliances
which don't require special study, care, and maintenance - all of which
apply to the CV product, like it or not.

There is still the perception that Honda and Toyota make the best cars,
but that isn't necessarily true anymore.

No?

Nevertheless, millions buy
them based on that perception, and will sing their praises despite the
fact that they have sometimes serious mechanical problems

Funny, I own two Honda automobiles and recently sold a Toyota Camry.
These are the best vehicles I've ever owned; the Accord I've owned for
six years; nothing but routine maintenance. The minivan (Odyssey) has
been perfect out of the gates. The Camry never required a lick of
special maintenance, either, and held an exceptionally high value upon
its resale.

(I once had a
Honda owner tell me that a failed brake master cylinder that cost $800
to replace was "just a minor maintenance issue.")

Okay.

I would rather deal
with actual facts of user experience, rather than the marketing hype.

Same here. The Garmin hype, I expect, will be borne out shortly with
plenty of positive user experiences... just like always.

Right now, I can find user experience both positive and negative for all
products, including Garmin's.

Maybe so, but there's a much better ratio of positive to negative in the
Garmin camp, than in the CV camp.

Best,

-Ryan

In article ,
Ryan Ferguson wrote:
The G430/530 are the most popular, cost-effective, and reliable GA
devices of their kind built to date. But okay. (Shrug)

Saying that something is the "most popular" device doesn't imply that
"everyone loves it," which is something that you have stated in this
thread. Microsoft Windows is the most popular desktop operating system,
but I can guarantee you that there are quite a few folks who really
don't like it.



No kidding... but the bugs generally aren't serious, and they're
usually addressed promptly. In 5 years of owning (and constantly using)
a 295, there's been precisely one time that a bug actually caused me to
reboot the unit. That bug was addressed in a firmware revision, by the
way. Folks running the CV rig will generally deal with quite a few more
"bugs."

Well, I run the "CV rig" right now, and can't think of a major
show-stopping bug that I've encountered. Their recent releases of
software seem to be very stable and work well.



I really don't hear that many
folks complaining about their AWM system "crapping out" anymore, but I'm
only a fairly recent user.

I hear it all the time... and read their forums, if you need more data
on that point.

Actually, I do read their forums daily, and I don't see it. What I do
see is the fact that they provide public forums, and they tolerate folks
posting bug reports and squawks on those forums, and they are very
responsive to those types of posts. What other company permits bug
reports and squawks on their forums, much less has a company president
who responds to them on a near-daily basis? As far as I am aware,
Garmin doesn't even host forums, much less forums where the president of
the company and developers participate and respond to issues and
suggestions.

CV was late to the game with XM weather, and my understanding is that it
took them a while to get it stable on their software platform. However,
they seem to have put significant effort into fixing the problems as of
late, and the result is a system that is probably more stable than most
of their competition. I can say that I demo'ed some of the other
PDA-based XM weather software, and found many of the products to be of
questionable quality compared to the CV offering.



really don't understand where all of the alarming hype is coming from
surrounding these systems. I will admit that they aren't "one-touch"
systems and it does help to have an understanding of how they work, but
that's true for operating an aircraft as well.

What you're failing to recognize is that it helps to understand the
"appliance," the operating system, the specific hardware you're using
with the software, the Bluetooth setup, the configuration... these are
all pretty technical things to have to mess with compared to an
all-in-one box that requires NO special knowledge on the part of the
user. That's asking a lot of a marketplace which now has the choice
between the former and the latter.

What you're failing to recognize is that I've repeatedly said that I
believe the 396 will be a great system, and that if it lives up to the
hype I might even buy one. I am skeptical that it will live up to the
hype of being such a perfect product as you and some others seem to
suggest.

When I purchased my Control Vision system in April, it worked out of the
box. I just turned it on and launched the program. It just worked.
Sure, it wasn't one touch, but I had never used a PocketPC device
before, and I had never used a Bluetooth device before. Call it luck or
whatever you want, but reading those same CV forums that you reference
above, I don't see hoards of folks complaining that they can't get the
system they just bought to work.

Before I purchased the CV system, I heard all of the comments that you
are stating here. In addition, I heard about how horrible CV's support
was. When I actually did some legwork and went to their forums, I
discovered that the comments that I had heard were way overblown. I
spoke to some locals who had the CV system and they had received good
support from CV. I have found CV's support to be excellent as well.



JKG

Does anyone know how much the subscription to the XM weather costs?
$50 per month with sat radio.
I just tried one at Arlinton EAA Fly-In.
Impressive - but how many recreational pilots will spend $50.00 per
month for weather & music?

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Garmin 396... WAAS capable
Garmin 430/530... WAAS ??? (someday. maybe.)

Handheld = not IFR approved.
Panel mount GNS 430/530 allows VOR, GPS and ILS approaches.

Ron Lee

I have a GNS 430 plus Airmap 100. If the GNS 430 has a problem I have
a redundant GPS unit.

Ron Lee


Honestly, if I had a 430/530 or other approach-certified GPS in my
panel, I don't know that I'd even invest in a hand held GPS. It might
be very nice to have your Garmin 396 interfaced with your 430/530,
GTX330, and SL30/SL40, but at some point I think the gadgetry reaches
the point of diminishing returns.

JKG

What XM issues?

I used WeatherWorx on Wings for 2 years and now have XM on my EX500 and with
both coverage is rarely more than 5 minutes old.

--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com