$16,619.85

Tina writes:

It's worth remembering earning a pilots license is less expensive
than, for instance, leaving the US to live in, say, Paris.

No, it's not. In fact, living in Paris is much cheaper than visiting Paris as
well.

And many more in the US learn to fly than abandon this country to live
in, say, Paris.

There are about ten times as many American pilots are there are Americans in
Paris. But it's really comparing apples and oranges.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

In the U.S., less than 1/10 of one percent of the population learns to play
golf, play the guitar, or do needle point.

I don't have figures for those hobbies, although I know that golf is extremely
expensive.

If one insists on new, top of the line clubs and plays at exclusive members
only courses it can be expensive, however used clubs cost next to nothing
and public courses cost about the same as going to a movie.

Once again you show no knowledge of the real world.

Only you would think a teenage kid getting a summer job is "extreme".

I don't think that. But a teenager getting a summer job just to pay for
flying lessons is extremely unusual.

Teenagers get summer jobs to pay for whatever it is they are interested
in; flying is no special exception.

Of course the concept of getting a job may be unfamiliar to you.

People with a college education tend to make more money than uneducated
people like you.

From what I've seen, the advantages of a college education are debatable,
after you adjust for years of lost revenue and the cost of repaying loans.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Couldn't hack in school either?

Is there ANYTHING in life where you managed to succeed?

--
Jim Pennino

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On 2007-12-29, Andy Hawkins wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
Europeans have a stronger sense of social stratification and inherited
entitlement, so only the nobles are expected or permitted privileges such as
flying their own aircraft.

Horlicks.

I'd say it more strongly: "********".

I'm hardly a noble (I'm a postal worker) yet I own shares in two
aircraft (one powered, one glider). Incidentally, we charge ourselves
GBP 45 per hour for our 160hp O-320 powered Auster. (Admittedly we
rarely run at 75% power when cruising, it just turns fuel into noise
without really making you go faster - the big engine for the aircraft is
really to help climb and let us tow gliders).

Admittedly 45/hr translates to US$90 hr which seems like a lot for an
owned rather than rented aircraft to US readers, but the US dollar has
plunged in value over the last few years. When I left the US in 2002, it
was about GBP1 = US$1.55. Today, it's about GBP1 = US$2.00 - a very
significant change. But since I'm not earning money in US dollars, it
doesn't really matter that it"s US$90 instead of some lower US$ value
because I don't use US$.

Of course, it means when I visit the US, the flying almost feels free of
charge it's so cheap, and as the dollar further devalues it only becomes
cheaper going that way.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On 2007-12-31, Dallas wrote:
landing fees 880 EUR

Wolfgang, would you explain how landing fees work in Europe.

Europe isn't a country - they may not work the same in every European
country. It's a misconception that the EU is a bit like the USA - a
collection of non-sovereign states. Europe is a collection of
independent states, and as such, things work differently in different
countries.

At my airfield, for instance, I've never paid a landing fee (because I'm
based there). Visitors do though.


Does the fee apply to every landing, including local training such as touch
and gos?

Who does the accounting in this situation (who counts the landings) ?

Who does the billing/collection of the money?

Are you expected to pay on the day of use or can a towered airport record
your tail number and bill your address?

All those, at least heere, are up to the airfield. Typically when you
visit an airfield, you'll pay any fees (fuel, landings etc.) before you
depart. Most places I've been, the "FBO" (we don't call them that here)
presents you with a bill with your fuel and any other fees, just like
what happens if you buy fuel at a US airfield (or go to one of the few
US airfields that charge a landing fee).
--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Tina writes:

It's worth remembering earning a pilots license is less expensive
than, for instance, leaving the US to live in, say, Paris.

No, it's not. In fact, living in Paris is much cheaper than visiting Paris as
well.

Especially when you're so dependent on the charity of others. Burned out
that rice cooker they gave you yet?

Mxsmanic wrote:

No, it's not. In fact, living in Paris is much cheaper than visiting Paris as
well.

Living anywhere is cheaper than visiting there dipwad.


--
Jim Pennino

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From what I've seen, the advantages of a college education are debatable,
after you adjust for years of lost revenue and the cost of repaying loans.

There was a study some time ago that showed that during the course of
his/her lifetimes, a college graduate earns an average of a million
dollars more than somebody who skips college. I remember John Kerry
quoted this during his 2004 campaign. The cost of a college education
is significantly less than a million dollars, so its the best possible
investment one can make. The cost of a PPL is even more insignificant.

Mxsmanic wrote:
In the U.S., less than 1/10 of one percent of the population learns to
fly.

That claim is incorrect - where did you get it? The current number of
active pilots is ~0.2% of the entire U.S. population and if one includes
the number of people who learned to fly but are no longer active, the
number is probably even larger. About 30 years ago the number of active
pilots was ~0.4% of the entire U.S. population.

If one does a comparison with the number of licensed automobile drivers (an
arguably better metric than using the entire population) there are about
330 licensed automobile drivers for every certificated aircraft pilots.

On 1 Jan, 17:26, Mxsmanic wrote:
Tina writes:
It's worth remembering earning a pilots license is less expensive
than, for instance, leaving the US to live in, say, Paris.

No, it's not. *In fact, living in Paris is much cheaper than visiting Paris as
well.

And many more in the US learn to fly than abandon this country to live
in, say, Paris.

There are about ten times as many American pilots are there are Americans in
Paris. *But it's really comparing apples and oranges.


Over ripe ones on sale today were they?

Bertie

On 1 Jan, 17:25, Mxsmanic wrote:
nobody writes:
Because most of the population is too stupid to learn to fly. It takes
intelligence to get a PPL. Those who don't fly are clearly inferior.

It doesn't take that much intelligence, particularly when most instruction
relies on rote learning rather than application of theory. *Rote learning
makes it possible to teach anyone anything, in time.

If they aren't smart enough to fly, they can go to Europe. I hear France
accepts sub-standard Americans.

It's even harder to get a license in France than it is in the U.S. *And the
rewards are fewer.

Nope.

Bertie