A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 31st 06, 02:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing

I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to
"fly it on" with no flare.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL
and a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare.
:-) To not flare is very hard for me.

2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.

3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail
wheel, so possibly this is the reason for his technique.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.

BTW, this is pretty neat stuff. I wish my first few hours of training
had been in a glider. Certainly I would have learned to use the
rudder much sooner!
Ads
  #2  
Old May 31st 06, 02:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing


This is one of those areas, such as hard vs. soft tow release, square
vs. cut corner pattern, side slip vs. crab, how to remove slack in tow
line, etc. where every instructor is likely to have a different opinion
on what is the right way to do it. Best to just follow your intructors
orders, then do what you want after you get your ticket.


Mitty wrote:
I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to
"fly it on" with no flare.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL
and a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare.
:-) To not flare is very hard for me.

2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.

3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail
wheel, so possibly this is the reason for his technique.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.

BTW, this is pretty neat stuff. I wish my first few hours of training
had been in a glider. Certainly I would have learned to use the
rudder much sooner!


  #3  
Old May 31st 06, 03:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing

Maybe his interpretation of "no flare" just means level off, then
settle onto the runway. Maybe.
Oh, yeah this IS great stuff. Pure mainlining. Have fun, start
shopping!

Mitty wrote:
I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to
"fly it on" with no flare.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL
and a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare.
:-) To not flare is very hard for me.

2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.

3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail
wheel, so possibly this is the reason for his technique.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.

BTW, this is pretty neat stuff. I wish my first few hours of training
had been in a glider. Certainly I would have learned to use the
rudder much sooner!


  #4  
Old May 31st 06, 03:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to "fly
it on" with no flare.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL and
a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare. :-) To
not flare is very hard for me.

2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.

3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail wheel,
so possibly this is the reason for his technique.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.

BTW, this is pretty neat stuff. I wish my first few hours of training had
been in a glider. Certainly I would have learned to use the rudder much
sooner!


Could he be concerned that you will do a tailwheel first landing if you
attempt a more tricycle gear type "full stall" landing (I assume that is
what you are used to doing)? Perhaps he is shooting for something like a
"wheel landing" where you touch down above the stall speed on the mains of a
taildragger? That still involves a flare - but not as much, and not holding
off until you get close to the stall speed - just level it off and set it
down. I assume that you still pretty much slow the descent rate down before
touchdown?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.


  #5  
Old May 31st 06, 03:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing


Mitty wrote:
I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to
"fly it on" with no flare.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL
and a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare.
:-) To not flare is very hard for me.

2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.

3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail
wheel, so possibly this is the reason for his technique.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.

BTW, this is pretty neat stuff. I wish my first few hours of training
had been in a glider. Certainly I would have learned to use the
rudder much sooner!


The main answer is 3. The rubber 'donuts' in the tail wheel fail from
rough contact and banging by overbraking on the main gear putting the
glider on its nose. The little ground contact bubble under the nose is
likely scraped also. If the donuts fail, the resulting collapse may
damage the surround which is relatively expensive. The donuts should
be inspected daily and after each tail slam. The instructor is
postponing the inevitable.

In general, two-pointing your landing is preferred and low energy
landings when landing out on XC flights are highly desirable.

Soaring is the domain of the seeker. Words mostly fail to convey the
experience to the uninitiated. If you keep seeking, you'll explore
places and see sights most uncommon. Welcome aboard.

Frank Whiteley

  #6  
Old May 31st 06, 03:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to "fly
it on" with no flare.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL and
a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare. :-) To
not flare is very hard for me.

2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.

3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail wheel,
so possibly this is the reason for his technique.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.

BTW, this is pretty neat stuff. I wish my first few hours of training had
been in a glider. Certainly I would have learned to use the rudder much
sooner!


Almost every aircraft will have its own "best" runway contact attitude. The
L-23 works best with a "wheel" landing in which the fragile tailwheel
doesn't touch down until the glider has slowed its rollout considerably.
Your instructor has the right idea.

In the case of most gliders and the L-23 in particular, 'flare' means to
simply arrest the decent so the glider is skimming along just above the
runway in level flight while losing airspeed. As airspeed is lost, the nose
must be raised (AOA increased) to maintain height a few inches above the
runway surface. The runway contact attitude (and the touchdown airspeed) is
determined by how much the nose is raised before the wheel is allowed to
touch the runway surface.

In the case of the L-23, this isn't much. To get a picture of this
attitude, strap in and have someone lift the tailwheel a few inches above
the runway. Don't raise the nose more than this before allowing the main
wheel to touch down.


Bill Daniels


  #7  
Old May 31st 06, 03:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing



Mitty wrote:
I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to
"fly it on" with no flare.


Listen to the instructor.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL
and a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare.
:-) To not flare is very hard for me.


Well learn a new technique...Its easy and fun. The normal
landing is similar to a wheel landing in a conventional
(tail wheel) airplane.


2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.


Yes but read further on and remember that sometimes Czech,
Chinese, or Japanese translations miss some of the meaning.
The manual goes on to say that you should touch down on the
main gear first and then let the tail wheel come down
(gently.)

The easy way to do that is to just ease back enough to stop
the sink just before you touch down. Then, once its down,
hold the stick full back, especially if you think you will
need to use the wheel brake.


3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail
wheel, so possibly this is the reason for his technique.


Yes. The old Blanik L-13s were worse but you still need to
try be easy on the tail wheel.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.


No need to flare at all, just arrest the sink rate and
touch down on the main wheel. The exception would be if you
have to get into a short field in which case you will need a
minimum airspeed (energy) touch down and landing so you can
get stopped. In that case, the tail wheel may touch down
first. But that's the exception.


--

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/



  #8  
Old May 31st 06, 04:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing

Just a thought...............I noticed your remark about wishing you
had learnt to use a rudder before? Di you by chance learn on a
hang-glider.
A "flare" in a hg is NOT the same thing when the terminology is
applyied to gliders.
You don't want to raise the nose to get airspeed down and then "stall"
it on...like you would in a hangie.
Cheers
Mark

  #9  
Old May 31st 06, 06:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing

Mitty,

I just got done looking through the Pilots Notes for the L-13, looking
for a 'wheel landing' recommendation. I couldn't find it, but I feel
it's in there some where. I can tell you the POH for L-33
specifically states to 'land on the main wheel before the tail wheel'.

I think in general, Let products are designed for 'wheel landing'.

I can tell you from experience, if you flair an L-13 or an L-33 close to
the ground, you are very likely to strike the the tail boom on the
ground, very hard, way before the main wheel.

Sincerely,
David Walsh


Mitty wrote:
I am learning to fly a Blanik L-23 and my instructor is telling me to
"fly it on" with no flare.

1) I am commercial/instrument rated with somewhere north of 1000 ASEL
and a few ASES landings in my logbook. I am _programmed_ to flare.
:-) To not flare is very hard for me.

2) The Blanik AFM refers to flaring on landing.

3) The instructor is very concerned about the fragility of the tail
wheel, so possibly this is the reason for his technique.

So ... to flare or not? When solo, I mean.

BTW, this is pretty neat stuff. I wish my first few hours of training
had been in a glider. Certainly I would have learned to use the rudder
much sooner!

  #10  
Old May 31st 06, 04:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Newbie Q: Blanik L-23 Landing

Hi,

I have ripped two tailwheels off of Blanik's over the years. It is a
weakness of the design as you normaly should be able to do a nice "two
point" low energy landing with a flare to the landing attitude.
The POH operational procedure ammends this practice to do a "wheel
landing" This is a common landing for tail wheel airplanes, and if you
get a chance to fly a Cub or similar tailwheel airplane you will get
the idea.

The Blanik is a great trainer in many ways. There is an improved
tailwheel on the new L-23's that is fixed and does not caster. The AF
Academy has them in this configuration. With the improved normal
tailwheel. I think normal low energy landings could be taught.

Be gentel with the tailwheel and don't push it backward over rough
ground.

See Saftey Advisory 01-1 at

http://www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/advisory.html

Jeff Banks




 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!! Eliot Coweye Home Built 237 February 13th 06 04:55 AM
Most reliable homebuilt helicopter? tom pettit Home Built 35 September 29th 05 02:24 PM
Mini-500 Accident Analysis Dennis Fetters Rotorcraft 16 September 3rd 05 11:35 AM
Cuban Missle Crisis - Ron Knott Greasy Rider© @invalid.com Naval Aviation 0 June 2nd 05 09:14 PM
"I Want To FLY!"-(Youth) My store to raise funds for flying lessons Curtl33 General Aviation 7 January 10th 04 12:35 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2020 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.