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East River turning radius



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 12th 06, 12:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default East River turning radius

NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000'
radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start
the turn).

Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall
during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're
afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn,
so you use just a 30-degree bank.

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.

Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
have to dodge high-density traffic there.

--Gary


  #2  
Old October 12th 06, 12:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter R.
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Posts: 1,045
Default East River turning radius

Gary Drescher wrote:

NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000'
radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start
the turn).


I have flown the Hudson River VFR corridor several times, but only flew the
East River corridor once.

My impression at the time was that a very tight turn is required to go back
south to exit this corridor.

--
Peter
  #3  
Old October 12th 06, 09:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
d&tm
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Posts: 92
Default East River turning radius


"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000'
radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you

start
the turn).

Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall
during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're
afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the

turn,
so you use just a 30-degree bank.

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.

Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
have to dodge high-density traffic there.


only have to increase bank to 36 degrees to get under 1000' radius ( or
slow to 81 kts) or go half way and 33 degrees bank and 85 kts. shouldnt be
a problem in a 172 ( isnt that what you fly?) stall speed would still only
be 55 kts. ( assuming 50 kts strait and level from memory)
terry

--Gary




  #4  
Old October 12th 06, 11:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default East River turning radius

"d&tm" wrote in message
...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a
1000'
radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you

start
the turn).

Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall
during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're
afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the

turn,
so you use just a 30-degree bank.

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.

Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
have to dodge high-density traffic there.


only have to increase bank to 36 degrees to get under 1000' radius ( or
slow to 81 kts) or go half way and 33 degrees bank and 85 kts. shouldnt
be
a problem in a 172 ( isnt that what you fly?) stall speed would still
only
be 55 kts. ( assuming 50 kts strait and level from memory)
terry


Yup, I fly 172s and Arrows. But the folks in the news were in a Cirrus. In
any case, the turn can certainly be executed--my point is just that the
situation is unusual (outside of mountain flying) for the degree of planning
that's required in order to make the turn safely.

--Gary


  #5  
Old October 12th 06, 05:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Gardner
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Posts: 315
Default East River turning radius

I think that any pilot with the fears that you describe should go up with an
instructor and explore the low-speed end of the operating envelope until he
or she is comfortable. "Fear" of stalling is based on lack of knowledge or
experience, and I know from reading your posts that you do not fit into
either category.

Bob Gardner

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000'
radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you
start the turn).

Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall
during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're
afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the
turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank.

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.

Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
have to dodge high-density traffic there.

--Gary




  #6  
Old October 12th 06, 09:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefano
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Posts: 6
Default East River turning radius

Gary Drescher wrote:

NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000'
radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you
start the turn).

Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall
during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're
afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the
turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank.

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.

Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
have to dodge high-density traffic there.

--Gary

In occasions like these I was trained to do a chandelle.
Immelman turn will also do ;-)

  #7  
Old October 12th 06, 09:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
EridanMan
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Posts: 208
Default East River turning radius

How is this turn any different (at all) then a tight traffic pattern?

Based on what I've seen, that's how it should be handled. Flaps down,
Approach speed, stabalize... determine the winds, and make a nice
crisp, 20 degree-of-bank turn into them.

Hell, the 27L Left pattern at OAK is only 1800 feet wide (its 1800 feet
from the numbers to the United Hangar used as reference), I've seen
plenty of fast glass practicing on it with no problems (Including a
full Base Leg (90 degree turn base, level off, 90 degree turn final)).

This is a basic piloting skill.


Gary Drescher wrote:
NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000'
radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start
the turn).

Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall
during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're
afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn,
so you use just a 30-degree bank.

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.

Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
have to dodge high-density traffic there.

--Gary


  #8  
Old October 12th 06, 09:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Maule Driver
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Posts: 80
Default East River turning radius

As soon as I heard East Side, Cirrus, building strike - I thought low
time pilot, hot aircraft, many distractions, wrong side of the VFR
corridor having do the U-turn.

I've lived on Roosevelt Island (middle of the East River just south of
the turn) and flown the corridor in a 172. I early on decided never to
fly the East River just because it's too tight and too filled with
traffic. It's not unsafe, it's just unnecessarily challenging when the
Hudson provides an equivalent experience.

I don't know how you properly train for that flight.... Few of us spend
much time flying within 1/4 mile of buildings and below their tops. All
of us can make the necessary turn at 1,000 feet in Iowa. Most of us
will find it catches your breath the first time you do it at 800 feet in
a concrete canyon near so many millions of people. Low ceilings, some
wind, some rapid fire Laguardia radio work in the background. It's
pretty high excitement.

I had flown many hours ridge soaring the Appalachins - 500 feet above
valley floor, 2 wingspans from the trees, redlining at 155mph, 200 miles
from homebase. Then I went out west. It took me 3 days of flying
before I could get within a 1/4 mile of a Sierra peak, 5,000 feet above
the valley floor, at 60 mph, 2 miles from takeoff. Vice-a-versa for
western pilots flying the eastern hills. It's all in you head but it's
all quite real. We already have the knowledge and skills to do it. We
just have to get the quivering mass of grey matter to settle down enough
to let the training take over.

Gary Drescher wrote:
Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
have to dodge high-density traffic there.


Yep. And not doing so can end up just like a guy in a used Porsche on a
rain slicked road - they just don't scramble jets on the west coast
while pulling the lifeless remains out of a Meadowlands swamp.

No point here... just rambling.
  #9  
Old October 12th 06, 09:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default East River turning radius

"Stefano" wrote in message
.. .
In occasions like these I was trained to do a chandelle.
Immelman turn will also do ;-)


Except that you're probably already close to the 1100' ceiling in this case.


--Gary


  #10  
Old October 12th 06, 10:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Neil Gould
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Posts: 723
Default East River turning radius

Recently, Stefano posted:

Gary Drescher wrote:

Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.


In occasions like these I was trained to do a chandelle.
Immelman turn will also do ;-)

Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive!

Neil



 




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