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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20



 
 
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  #91  
Old May 14th 20, 05:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

Attached are 3 photo-frames from the video and part of the video that has been magnified and edited. My observations only, I'm not a forensic investigator. First frame shows glider on left, towplane on right with the glider "below" the tug. Tug's landing gear and tail position are evident with vertical stabilizer below wing surface. Note the glider's tail appears even with its wing. Second frame: glider tail now dips "below" its wing and the pitch-up is evidenced by showing more top wing surface; glider is "above" tug. Vert stab of tug now higher/level with its wing. Tug's undercarriage seen. Third frame: Glider appears higher above tug; glider's tail now more horizontal with respect to wing. [Note video has been slowed by 50%] https://www..dropbox.com/sh/snhkjkit...Wdun8aY2a?dl=0 Last document is from NTSB final report of 2017 fatal towplane accident. One photo clearly shows the Pawnee's elevator in extreme up deflection.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/62000-62...018/622033.pdf
  #92  
Old May 14th 20, 05:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

Attached are 3 frames from the video and part of the video that has been magnified and edited. My observations only, I'm not a forensic investigator. First frame shows glider on left, towplane on right with the glider "below" the tug. Tug's landing gear and tail position are evident with vertical stabilizer below wing surface. Note the glider's tail appears even with its wing. Second frame: glider tail now dips "below" its wing and the pitch-up is evidenced by showing more top wing surface; glider is "above" tug. Vert stab of tug now higher/level with its wing. Tug's undercarriage seen. Third frame: Glider appears higher above tug; glider's tail now more horizontal with respect to wing. [Note video has been slowed by 50%] https://www.dropbox.com/sh/snhkjkit2...Wdun8aY2a?dl=0

Last document is from NTSB final report of 2017 fatal towplane accident. One photo clearly shows the Pawnee's elevator in extreme up deflection while the glider is high above it.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/62000-62...018/622033.pdf
  #93  
Old May 14th 20, 05:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:23:35 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
The glider was a 1-26.

Ramy


Too bad. A 1-26 flies fine without a canopy. I have purposefully opened the canopy of a 2-33, unbuckled and stood up to untangle the yaw string, and though flying slower than on tow it wasn't terribly dramatic. Perhaps if training in 2-33s opening the canopy to experience it should be part of the course. It is the surprise and fear of the unknown which certainly contributes to the loss of concentration.

An artificial horizon and electric guillotine is a complex solution. Is the tow rope at a sufficient angle in these situations to simply position a sharp knife above the rope such that it cuts itself if the angle is too high? Surely that has been thought of and rejected for good reasons?
  #94  
Old May 14th 20, 08:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 9:47:50 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:23:35 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
The glider was a 1-26.

Ramy


Too bad. A 1-26 flies fine without a canopy. I have purposefully opened the canopy of a 2-33, unbuckled and stood up to untangle the yaw string, and though flying slower than on tow it wasn't terribly dramatic. Perhaps if training in 2-33s opening the canopy to experience it should be part of the course. It is the surprise and fear of the unknown which certainly contributes to the loss of concentration.

An artificial horizon and electric guillotine is a complex solution. Is the tow rope at a sufficient angle in these situations to simply position a sharp knife above the rope such that it cuts itself if the angle is too high? Surely that has been thought of and rejected for good reasons?


" I have purposefully opened the canopy of a 2-33, unbuckled and stood up to untangle the yaw string, " Until this moment, I had considered you the smartest guy on this news group. And for a yaw string??? I haven't actually looked at one in years, my butt and damaged lower back give me much feed back. But seriously, other than unbuckling, airplanes, gliders, helicopters can all fly without windows or doors (check POH for which doors). I witnessed a piper arrow crash due to a door coming ajar on take off. I too have opened canopies on 2-33's (pumpkin drops) and even on a Grob 103, front canopy to clear the hot air. In risk v rewards annuals, a yaw string is just not worth unbuckling for, i.e., dying.
  #95  
Old May 14th 20, 08:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobWa43
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 10:24:18 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 9:57:50 AM UTC-4, BobWa43 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:43:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 6:52:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 4:05:38 PM UTC-4, BG wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

16Y had a device to cut the rope and would not have been effected by the tension on the rope. The snout at the tail is a tube that feeds the rope to electric spool behind the pilots seat after release.

We are looking for the tow rope.

BG

Indeed it was a canopy came open.

This thread, like almost every thread after a tug upset, goes through the same stuff about Schweizer releases and that kind of stuff. That has little to do with preventing the next one.
If the observation is that the canopy came open, and this is true, this accident is instructive in a very important way that we can use to help avoid the next one.
Assuming that the distraction of an open canopy caused loss of position control and crashed the tug, I submit the real cause of the accident is probably a blown checklist whereby the canopy was not locked and confirmed.
We can all honor the lost pilot by dedicating ourselves to using our checklist on every takeoff, and reminding our students and friends to do the same.
With the late start to the season for many,we are all more rusty than usual, good habits need to be reacquired. Checklists are among the most important.
With respect
UH

Agreed, proper use of the checklist may well have interdicted this event. One more thing has to be added and that's what we have all been told, time and time and time again.....FLY THE AIRPLANE, THE GLIDER, THE HELICOPTER. Whatever it is we are flying. Flying the glider in this situation means keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position. Unfortunately this incident happened at an altitude which made recovery by the tow pilot impossible.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.


Actually,, in this case, flying the airplane means immediately pulling the release.


Actaully "fly the airplane" means retain control as to not get out of position in the first place. The distraction of the canopy opening causes loss of attention on position. There are many cases where immediate release would be worse than holding position, possibly grabbing the canopy, and flying to a height where release is a safer option.
I teach my students that the glider flies just fine with the canopy open and not letting it cause more problems is number one.
One recent accident in the northeast involved the canopy coming open, tow gyrations, followed by release with plenty of height to safely return to the airport. He got that part right.The pilot was so distracted by trying to keep the canopy closed that he did not notice that the air brakes had popped open. He retained that condition all the way to impacting the ground a few hundred feet from the airport. Glider totalled, pilot minor injuries.
UH


If you are very early in the take off run, as was the case here, and something is not right, immediate release is the proper response IMO and that is what I teach my students.
  #96  
Old May 14th 20, 08:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

An artificial horizon and electric guillotine is a complex solution. Is the tow rope at a sufficient angle in these situations to simply position a sharp knife above the rope such that it cuts itself if the angle is too high? Surely that has been thought of and rejected for good reasons?


I'd been thinking along the same line. I don't think it's quite that simple though. No matter how sharp the blade, it won't cut a line that is merely kissing against it. The blade needs to be hot enough to melt through the line or actively sawing. And, obviously it has to all happen very quickly..

How about this: Imagine two permanent magnets (strong magnets) that when joined together create a magnetic junction in the tow line just a bit aft of the tugs two hook. Similar to the knife blade idea, a horizontal bar is mounted off the back of the tow plane above the tow rope such that when the rope raises to a critical angle, the bar presses along the alignment between the two magnets. The relatively small orthogonal force exerted at the magnetic juncture will have a leverage effect to pry the magnets enough to break the magnetic circuit. To improve and optimize the leverage action on the magnets, each may have an attached bar of defined length that is rigidly affixed such the tow line attachment point is positioned at the distal end of these leverage bars. In fact, the tug side's lever bar may have a ring at the end to be attached directly to the tug's tow release. The tug will be instantly freed predicated on the existence of a strong enough pull on the line above the critical angle of bar contact.
  #97  
Old May 14th 20, 09:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 11:27:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 8:00:36 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 7:24:42 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 1:54:36 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.

From the standpoint of the tow pilot they can and do happen too fast to react. I've experienced the slow, annoying, what the hell is the glider pilot doing type of kite and the sudden, split second, I'm nose down and turned to the left type. Even if I had my hand on the release (which was quite inappropriately installed down on the floor, difficult to reach) I would not have had time to react before I was nose down. I've experience two of the sudden type kite, one at 2K feet and again one at about 300-350 feet. I've had more than one pilot give me push back when I would later approach them about their lack of control on take off. There is NO excuse for doing anything but keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position.. The tow pilot at Byron didn't stand a chance of recovery due to the low level of the incident. In my one low level kiting experience had I been 50 feet lower I would not have had time or room to recover.

I remember my first glider flight. My CFIG clearly said "if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release!!. His admonitions were clear and concise. "No matter what happens, FLY THE GLIDER FIRST!!!" These instructions were stated on every flight as they should be by every CFIG on every flight.. Even at that one cannot count on the student or even the certified glider pilot doing things properly all the time. I have learned in life that there is a difference between telling someone what to do and "teaching" them what to do. Human error is ubiquitous.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot


Walt, it would surprise most as to how many times this happens and things do not turn tragic, point being is that it happens way too often. Recently I was pulling a student pilot in a 1-26 and he did the exact thing to me..I was flying The Gorilla and you can only imagine where my left hand was as I was yelling at him on the radio. You know that we as tow pilots sometimes go beyond in allowing glider pilots to get further out of position than we should. MY motto is, I'll Dump You Bro!!!
Each time this has happened at our club the glider pilot always has some excuse to justify his lack of reacting to the situation. As mentioned earlier, there is no excuse in NOT reaching for the safety of all involved.
Towing is a hazardous duty, there needs to be more emphasis placed on staying in the slot from the first lesson to the last. this will not be the last time this type of accident occurs, lets face the facts, gliding is hazardous, and tow pilots have been not vocal enough during the training process, not anymore, things are changing.


Correct, we are not vocal enough in the training process. The student who almost killed me had NO business being sent on solo. I towed her on 6 or more duals that morning and as per usual she was in and out of the mirror, could not hold steady position and yet her instructor sent her solo. I should have said NO, not gonna tow her but I didn't, that failure almost got me killed. Fact is that even if the gentleman in California who died was flying the Gorilla with what I consider should be the gold standard of handle and tow hook he may well not have survived. I understand he managed to cut the rope but still impacted the ground. Below a certain altitude you are most likely to crash and if not be dead be seriously injured.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happy Helicopter Pilot


I agree Walt, after looking at those enlarged frames I must conclude that the poor tow pilot waited too long to pull the trigger on release. Things happen so quickly that I doubt that the outcome could have been any different.. As tow pilots we all probably extend every possible opportunity to the glider pilot to make recovery, in many cases way too long.
The situation with the 1-26 student pilot was with an individual that took 250 plus flights to solo, the guy should be fishing instead of flying gliders.
A look in the mirror tells wonders when you are towing, we have that ability to evaluate from the front of the rope instead of from behind. This gives us the opportunity to see things that the instructor doesn't. As you well know we as tow pilots can and do make corrections that nullify the mistakes of the glider pilot.
When we have check rides for students I make it a point to inform the DPE of the experiences that I have had as the applicants tow pilot and point out any potential areas of concern that the DPE could assist with to help the applicant. The same goes for their primary instructor, I communicate my concerns! Us as tow pilots need to do more of this, being involved in that process of communicating with the student and the instructor is vital. Most of our instructors do not fly both ends of the rope, therefor we have a huge advantage in evaluating the tow. I'll DUMP YOU BRO!!
  #98  
Old May 14th 20, 09:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 12:28:22 PM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
An artificial horizon and electric guillotine is a complex solution. Is the tow rope at a sufficient angle in these situations to simply position a sharp knife above the rope such that it cuts itself if the angle is too high? Surely that has been thought of and rejected for good reasons?


I'd been thinking along the same line. I don't think it's quite that simple though. No matter how sharp the blade, it won't cut a line that is merely kissing against it. The blade needs to be hot enough to melt through the line or actively sawing. And, obviously it has to all happen very quickly.

How about this: Imagine two permanent magnets (strong magnets) that when joined together create a magnetic junction in the tow line just a bit aft of the tugs two hook. Similar to the knife blade idea, a horizontal bar is mounted off the back of the tow plane above the tow rope such that when the rope raises to a critical angle, the bar presses along the alignment between the two magnets. The relatively small orthogonal force exerted at the magnetic juncture will have a leverage effect to pry the magnets enough to break the magnetic circuit. To improve and optimize the leverage action on the magnets, each may have an attached bar of defined length that is rigidly affixed such the tow line attachment point is positioned at the distal end of these leverage bars. In fact, the tug side's lever bar may have a ring at the end to be attached directly to the tug's tow release. The tug will be instantly freed predicated on the existence of a strong enough pull on the line above the critical angle of bar contact.


Perhaps simpler and smaller than the magnetic method would be to instead incorporate a metal weak link analogous to a Tost weak link used on winch tows. In this case, the link is designed to bust specifically by leverage action across the weak link junction. There will be leverage bars on both sides of this angular weak link. The fulcrum of action could comprise two annular elements with the weak link element joining the two sides in the center of the annular elements. As with the magnetic case, a bar above the line imparts an orthogonal force that results in a powerful leverage action that busts the weak link when the combination of line angle and pull force exceeds the intended critical threshold.
  #99  
Old May 15th 20, 01:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

Has anyone investigated placing the tow hook directly over(or under) the tow planes center of gravity? This would keep the out of position glider from yanking the tow planes tail out of acceptable limits? The RC tow ships, I have seen, place the tow hook over the towing ships CG.
My 2 cents,
JJ
  #100  
Old May 15th 20, 01:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
john firth
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 10:57:01 AM UTC-4, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL


suggestion for instructors;
after the latch item, teach a positive (push up) canopy check.
On subsequent flights, add some distraction for the student.
If they fail to latch and check, then wait till the launch starts
and push the canopy open, ( and release )
This is more likely to register in the student's memory.
I used to do this and they hated me for it; instructing is not always
a popularity contest.

John F
 




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