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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20



 
 
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  #71  
Old May 13th 20, 11:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 11:35:23 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Dashcam video of this tragic accident
This is out on the internet now

https://photos.app.goo.gl/X9E3c7JDwnyMBMLw6

Nick
T


Unbelievable....!

Uli
'AS'
  #72  
Old May 14th 20, 12:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:39:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 11:35:23 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Dashcam video of this tragic accident
This is out on the internet now

https://photos.app.goo.gl/X9E3c7JDwnyMBMLw6

Nick
T


Unbelievable....!

Uli
'AS'


Seriously sad.
  #73  
Old May 14th 20, 12:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 10:35:23 AM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Dashcam video of this tragic accident
This is out on the internet now

https://photos.app.goo.gl/X9E3c7JDwnyMBMLw6

Nick
T


Amazing that there is footage.

Not sure what it shows. I think let the NTSB sort it out.
  #74  
Old May 14th 20, 01:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Rakel
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 7:56:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Not sure what it shows. I think let the NTSB sort it out.


last view of the glider and tow plane are at 0:51 on the video.

It appears that the glider is way too high, but this could just be the point of view of the dashcam.

  #75  
Old May 14th 20, 03:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

You can see the ground run beginning at 0:31. Can't tell if the canopy is open. The NTSB may be able to synchronise with the glider recorder, but a 4 second interval won't add much information. In some cases Oudies record at 1 second intervals.
  #76  
Old May 14th 20, 04:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

The glider was a 1-26.

Ramy
  #77  
Old May 14th 20, 04:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

This is very sad. My condolences to everyone who knew and loved the tow pilot… and to the sailplane pilot and his family and friends as well.

In watching the dashcam video, I realize that there is a second aspect to these accidents that I hadn’t previously recognized. All the energy to accelerate the glider along its longer flight path (crack the whip style) and the potential energy it gained with increasing altitude, came from the tow plane’s kinetic energy. It is not just a matter of overpowering the tow pilot’s pitch authority; we’ve also robbed him of flying speed.

Further note, it takes less than 2 seconds for the transition from a standard tow position to what is surely an unrecoverable situation for the tow plane.

Mike Koerner
  #78  
Old May 14th 20, 04:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 11:32:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
This is very sad. My condolences to everyone who knew and loved the tow pilot… and to the sailplane pilot and his family and friends as well..

In watching the dashcam video, I realize that there is a second aspect to these accidents that I hadn’t previously recognized. All the energy to accelerate the glider along its longer flight path (crack the whip style) and the potential energy it gained with increasing altitude, came from the tow plane’s kinetic energy. It is not just a matter of overpowering the tow pilot’s pitch authority; we’ve also robbed him of flying speed.

Further note, it takes less than 2 seconds for the transition from a standard tow position to what is surely an unrecoverable situation for the tow plane.

Mike Koerner


Correct! You just described the dynamics of the early stage of a winch launch! The Russians experimented with this sort of thing decades ago by paying out a long line from the tow plane during the tow and then initiating a dive while the glider went into a winch-like attitude. They basically sling-shot the glider to very high altitudes that way.

Anyone interested to discuss and work on a conceptual technical solution beyond Schweizer vs. Tost hook outside of this group, please contact me at moc.oohay@nnamuenilu

Uli
'AS'
  #79  
Old May 14th 20, 06:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL


I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch.. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.
  #80  
Old May 14th 20, 12:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 1:54:36 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...atal..html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL


I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost.. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.


From the standpoint of the tow pilot they can and do happen too fast to react. I've experienced the slow, annoying, what the hell is the glider pilot doing type of kite and the sudden, split second, I'm nose down and turned to the left type. Even if I had my hand on the release (which was quite inappropriately installed down on the floor, difficult to reach) I would not have had time to react before I was nose down. I've experience two of the sudden type kite, one at 2K feet and again one at about 300-350 feet. I've had more than one pilot give me push back when I would later approach them about their lack of control on take off. There is NO excuse for doing anything but keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position. The tow pilot at Byron didn't stand a chance of recovery due to the low level of the incident. In my one low level kiting experience had I been 50 feet lower I would not have had time or room to recover.

I remember my first glider flight. My CFIG clearly said "if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release!!. His admonitions were clear and concise. "No matter what happens, FLY THE GLIDER FIRST!!!" These instructions were stated on every flight as they should be by every CFIG on every flight. Even at that one cannot count on the student or even the certified glider pilot doing things properly all the time. I have learned in life that there is a difference between telling someone what to do and "teaching" them what to do. Human error is ubiquitous.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
 




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