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#61
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Dave Walsh wrote on 9/24/2020 5:11 AM:
You won't need tow planes or winches when everyone has an electric self launch: everyone just has to get a lot richer. It's not a problem, our politicians have it all under control, look at how well we Europeans are doing with Brexit & Covid..... And, yes, it's raining. There is an alternative to getting a lot richer: clubs and partnerships. With just two people in a partnership, your purchase cost is one half, and you no longer have to support a tow plane or pay tow fees. If you can fly near your home, you can avoid travel and motel costs, too. The partners can fly whenever their schedule and the weather permit, and even take advantage of marginal soaring conditions without the inconvenience or expense of a retrieve, so the utilization of the glider is higher than a towed glider. So, instead of "a lot richer", you only have to be "modestly richer", and with three owners of a glider, maybe not even richer at all, especially as the used market for FES gliders increases in the next few years. A club might find an FES glider a good value, particularly if they want to encourage cross-country soaring. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
#62
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Well, then...Â* You'll need one or more old fart partners because there
are only two days in a weekend. :-D Signed, Dan (an old fart) On 9/24/2020 6:59 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote: Dave Walsh wrote on 9/24/2020 5:11 AM: You won't need tow planes or winches when everyone has an electric self launch: everyone just has to get a lot richer. It's not a problem, our politicians have it all under control, look at how well we Europeans are doing with Brexit & Covid..... And, yes, it's raining. There is an alternative to getting a lot richer: clubs and partnerships. With just two people in a partnership, your purchase cost is one half, and you no longer have to support a tow plane or pay tow fees. If you can fly near your home, you can avoid travel and motel costs, too. The partners can fly whenever their schedule and the weather permit, and even take advantage of marginal soaring conditions without the inconvenience or expense of a retrieve, so the utilization of the glider is higher than a towed glider. So, instead of "a lot richer", you only have to be "modestly richer", and with three owners of a glider, maybe not even richer at all, especially as the used market for FES gliders increases in the next few years. A club might find an FES glider a good value, particularly if they want to encourage cross-country soaring. -- Dan, 5J |
#63
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On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 6:00:01 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dave Walsh wrote on 9/24/2020 5:11 AM: You won't need tow planes or winches when everyone has an electric self launch: everyone just has to get a lot richer. It's not a problem, our politicians have it all under control, look at how well we Europeans are doing with Brexit & Covid..... And, yes, it's raining. There is an alternative to getting a lot richer: clubs and partnerships. With just two people in a partnership, your purchase cost is one half, and you no longer have to support a tow plane or pay tow fees. If you can fly near your home, you can avoid travel and motel costs, too. The partners can fly whenever their schedule and the weather permit, and even take advantage of marginal soaring conditions without the inconvenience or expense of a retrieve, so the utilization of the glider is higher than a towed glider. So, instead of "a lot richer", you only have to be "modestly richer", and with three owners of a glider, maybe not even richer at all, especially as the used market for FES gliders increases in the next few years. A club might find an FES glider a good value, particularly if they want to encourage cross-country soaring. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 That strategy has been in use since the Wright Brothers started selling aircraft, so it is not going to change anything. If an electric towplane can only make 2 launches per day you will need more towplanes and the much higher cost would have to be passed on to the same number of club members. Tom |
#64
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On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 08:39:05 -0700, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 6:00:01 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote: Dave Walsh wrote on 9/24/2020 5:11 AM: You won't need tow planes or winches when everyone has an electric self launch: everyone just has to get a lot richer. It's not a problem, our politicians have it all under control, look at how well we Europeans are doing with Brexit & Covid..... And, yes, it's raining. There is an alternative to getting a lot richer: clubs and partnerships. With just two people in a partnership, your purchase cost is one half, and you no longer have to support a tow plane or pay tow fees. If you can fly near your home, you can avoid travel and motel costs, too. The partners can fly whenever their schedule and the weather permit, and even take advantage of marginal soaring conditions without the inconvenience or expense of a retrieve, so the utilization of the glider is higher than a towed glider. So, instead of "a lot richer", you only have to be "modestly richer", and with three owners of a glider, maybe not even richer at all, especially as the used market for FES gliders increases in the next few years. A club might find an FES glider a good value, particularly if they want to encourage cross-country soaring. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ions/download- the-guide-1 That strategy has been in use since the Wright Brothers started selling aircraft, so it is not going to change anything. If an electric towplane can only make 2 launches per day you will need more towplanes and the much higher cost would have to be passed on to the same number of club members. The least exploited strategy is electric winches, since they can be run off the mains and, with a battery bank you get off-peak charging and/or to ability operate off a relatively small trailer generator. We looked at using electric winches a few years back, but dropped the idea when we found out what wiring up our usual winch points would be (we'd ideally wire up three or four, with two being at the opposite end of the runs to the clubhouse & mains supply, (we are on an ex-RAF bomber field and regularly launch on 04, 22, less frequently on 340 and occasionally on 160). We have a pair of Skylaunch winches that run on LPG. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#65
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Exactly! And us OF's are ready to do our part! But, we may not need to: these
days, with so many people working remotely, or can otherwise shift their working hours around, it's not just OF's that can fly during the week. You don't have to live near each other, either: rotate the glider among the owners' airports every week or so, making it practical to have owners that don't live in the same town. Dan Marotta wrote on 9/24/2020 8:04 AM: Well, then...* You'll need one or more old fart partners because there are only two days in a weekend. :-D Signed, Dan (an old fart) On 9/24/2020 6:59 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote: Dave Walsh wrote on 9/24/2020 5:11 AM: You won't need tow planes or winches when everyone has an electric self launch: everyone just has to get a lot richer. It's not a problem, our politicians have it all under control, look at how well we Europeans are doing with Brexit & Covid..... And, yes, it's raining. There is an alternative to getting a lot richer: clubs and partnerships. With just two people in a partnership, your purchase cost is one half, and you no longer have to support a tow plane or pay tow fees. If you can fly near your home, you can avoid travel and motel costs, too. The partners can fly whenever their schedule and the weather permit, and even take advantage of marginal soaring conditions without the inconvenience or expense of a retrieve, so the utilization of the glider is higher than a towed glider. So, instead of "a lot richer", you only have to be "modestly richer", and with three owners of a glider, maybe not even richer at all, especially as the used market for FES gliders increases in the next few years. A club might find an FES glider a good value, particularly if they want to encourage cross-country soaring. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
#66
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![]() There is an alternative to getting a lot richer: clubs and partnerships. I've been in several partnerships, and they all were much better in every way, than owning a glider alone (which I also have done). Better financially, and by having helpers, and when I landed out the nice feeling that someone else had a large interest in getting the glider (and me) back home. |
#68
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Why nobody mentioned Antares 20/21E?
S |
#69
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At 06:18 28 September 2020, Slawek Piela wrote:
Why nobody mentioned Antares 20/21E? The Antares 20E is a very nice handling machine with a good high speed glide angle, comfortable (crash resistant) cockpit and excellent simple engine controls (one lever does it all). The climb rate is very good (a large, 2m diameter, slow revving prop and engine doors that are closed during climb all help). The build quality is very nice. In EASA land you can extend the actual ARC inspection to every three years; the A/C can generate its own system reports which can be sent to your inspector, if all is well a physical inspection is not required annually. However the total full power engine run time is only about 13 minutes so after a ~3000 foot climb (I've averaged 6 minutes/launch over the last 5 years) you might have 50 - 60% battery capacity remaining: realistically this will give you one further good climb so for many pilots the limited battery capacity is seen as a problem. The A/C is electrically/electronically very complex, the engine doors, the engine erection/retraction and the U/C are all electro-hydraulic: even in Europe any serious issue might mean a trip to Lange Aviation, Zweibrucken, NW Germany. It's expensive; it's the nicest motor glider I've owned/operated. Things that could be better: - (i) Engineers & inspectors with experience of Antares maintenance are thin on the ground. (ii) The official Flight & Maintenance Manuals are in still in German! |
#70
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On Monday, September 28, 2020 at 2:18:07 AM UTC-4, Slawek Piela wrote:
Why nobody mentioned Antares 20/21E? Before you purchase any motorglider, you will want to talk to a few owners about their ownership experience, especially reliability and factory support. |
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