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Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 24th 06, 07:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Ben Jackson
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Posts: 90
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

The way I read 61.57(d) (the requirement for an IPC), it's just an extra
requirement that kicks in under certain circumstances. It's not a subpart
of 61.57(c) (6 approaches etc in 6 months), and (c) does not have any
exceptions related to (d).

So if an IPC is essentially a checkride, it could be done by a proficient
pilot with (say) 3 approaches. Would that pilot be legal for IFR if he
had gone into the IPC needing it (no approaches within 6 months)?

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD

http://www.ben.com/
  #2  
Old August 24th 06, 07:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
...
The way I read 61.57(d) (the requirement for an IPC), it's just an extra
requirement that kicks in under certain circumstances. It's not a subpart
of 61.57(c) (6 approaches etc in 6 months), and (c) does not have any
exceptions related to (d).

So if an IPC is essentially a checkride, it could be done by a proficient
pilot with (say) 3 approaches. Would that pilot be legal for IFR if he
had gone into the IPC needing it (no approaches within 6 months)?


Not as the regulation is written. As you note, 61.57d sets forth an
additional requirement, not a substitution for or exception to the
requirements of 61.57c. So an IPC might indeed include only three
approaches, but that wouldn't qualify the pilot to fly IFR unless the pilot
has flown three other approaches within the past six months.

--Gary


  #3  
Old August 24th 06, 08:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jose[_1_]
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Posts: 1,632
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

So an IPC might indeed include only three
approaches, but that wouldn't qualify the pilot to fly IFR unless the pilot
has flown three other approaches within the past six months.


Gee, I never looked at it that way. But, OTOH, an instrument rated
pilot who goes nine months without any instrument time, and subsequently
does six approaches, holds, and intercepts under the hood, would not
need the IPC, since he at that point DOES meet the original requirement.
This would make the IPC irrelevant, which I'm sure is not what they
had in mind.

What =were= they thinking?? (my question every time I read the regs)

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #4  
Old August 24th 06, 08:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

"Jose" wrote in message
. com...
So an IPC might indeed include only three approaches, but that wouldn't
qualify the pilot to fly IFR unless the pilot has flown three other
approaches within the past six months.


Gee, I never looked at it that way. But, OTOH, an instrument rated pilot
who goes nine months without any instrument time, and subsequently does
six approaches, holds, and intercepts under the hood, would not need the
IPC, since he at that point DOES meet the original requirement. This would
make the IPC irrelevant, which I'm sure is not what they had in mind.


After just nine months without instrument time, a pilot would not
necessarily need an IPC to regain currency. The IPC requirement kicks in six
months after instrument currency expires. At that point, though, just the
six approaches (and holds and intercepts) do not suffice to reestablish
currency; there has to be an IPC. So the IPC isn't irrelevant in that case.

--Gary


  #5  
Old August 24th 06, 09:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jose[_1_]
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Posts: 1,632
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

After just nine months without instrument time, a pilot would not
necessarily need an IPC to regain currency.


Oh right. Duh!

But it does seem that an IPC even within six months is not sufficient to
restablish currency.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #6  
Old August 24th 06, 09:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Robert M. Gary
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Posts: 2,767
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

Yea, the IPC can be done in less time than doing 6 in 6 for currency
assuming a current pilot. I almost always do IPCs myself just because
it takes so damn long to get in 6 approachs at busy airports. The
requirements of the IPC are very strickly called out in the IFR PTS. It
is not open to the latitude that a BFR is.

-Robert, CFII

Ben Jackson wrote:
The way I read 61.57(d) (the requirement for an IPC), it's just an extra
requirement that kicks in under certain circumstances. It's not a subpart
of 61.57(c) (6 approaches etc in 6 months), and (c) does not have any
exceptions related to (d).

So if an IPC is essentially a checkride, it could be done by a proficient
pilot with (say) 3 approaches. Would that pilot be legal for IFR if he
had gone into the IPC needing it (no approaches within 6 months)?

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD

http://www.ben.com/


  #7  
Old August 24th 06, 09:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Robert M. Gary
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Posts: 2,767
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?


Jose wrote:
But it does seem that an IPC even within six months is not sufficient to
restablish currency.


An IPC automatically starts your clock again regardless if your last
currency was 2 weeks ago or 30 years ago. The manuevers required of the
IPC are called out in the IFR PTS.

-Robert, CFII

  #8  
Old August 24th 06, 09:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Bill Zaleski
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Posts: 58
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:52:35 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
...
The way I read 61.57(d) (the requirement for an IPC), it's just an extra
requirement that kicks in under certain circumstances. It's not a subpart
of 61.57(c) (6 approaches etc in 6 months), and (c) does not have any
exceptions related to (d).

So if an IPC is essentially a checkride, it could be done by a proficient
pilot with (say) 3 approaches. Would that pilot be legal for IFR if he
had gone into the IPC needing it (no approaches within 6 months)?


Not as the regulation is written. As you note, 61.57d sets forth an
additional requirement, not a substitution for or exception to the
requirements of 61.57c. So an IPC might indeed include only three
approaches, but that wouldn't qualify the pilot to fly IFR unless the pilot
has flown three other approaches within the past six months.

--Gary



This is from the last set of FAQ's that we are not supposed to have
anymore. It used to be stated as FAA policy, but someone decided that
they didn't want to stick their neck out anymore. I believe it to be
accurate. Since an IPC is essentially an instrumet checkride given by
a CFII, and an instrument checkride consists of only 3 approaches
anyway, it stands to reason that an IPC and currency needs not be
something more than the original practical test consisted of. The
sucessful instrument applicant left the checkride current to fly IFR
in the system with only 3 approaches demonstrated.

QUESTION: A question has arisen about the "6 in 6" rule and the IPC as
they relate to pilots out of currency for more than 6 months.
Paragraph (d) says such pilots may not act as PIC under IFR until they
get an IPC. However, the way it is worded, one might conclude that
the pilot must also achieve the 6 approaches/intercept/track/hold
criteria in paragraph (c) before he can be PIC under IFR -- that the
IPC is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for returning to
currency after more than 6 months out of currency. So, is a
successful IPC sufficient for IFR currency regardless of the number of
approaches completed in the last 6 months? Does this change if you
are out of the 6 months-without-currency grace period?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.57(d); An instrument proficiency check (IPC)
conducted in accordance with the § 61.57(d)/ Instrument Rating PTS
meets all the requirements to "start the clock" over for remaining
instrument rated current. Passing an IPC fulfills the requirement for
currency.
Back in 1997-1998 it was questioned what was meant by § 61.57(d) in
stating that passing IPC "... consisting of a representative number of
tasks required by the instrument rating practical test . . ." was
required. This question was answered by AFS-630 that write the PTS's.
In the Instrument Rating Practical Test Standards, FAA-S-8081-4C a
task table was added with "PC' as one of the columns in change #2, on
page 15 of the introduction portion of the PTS. Conducting an IPC in
accordance with this standard is a requirement now. When a pilot
completes such an IPC of at least 3 approaches (Area of Operation VI)
and in a multiengine airplane of at least one more approach (Area of
Operation VII), the person will then be considered to be instrument
rated current for that category of aircraft.
{Q&A-514}

  #9  
Old August 24th 06, 09:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jose[_1_]
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Posts: 1,632
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

An IPC automatically starts your clock again regardless if your last
currency was 2 weeks ago or 30 years ago.


I've heard that too. But where is it written?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #10  
Old August 25th 06, 04:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Gary Drescher
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Posts: 252
Default Is an IPC a substitute for 6 approaches?

"Bill Zaleski" wrote in message
...
This is from the last set of FAQ's that we are not supposed to have
anymore. It used to be stated as FAA policy, but someone decided that
they didn't want to stick their neck out anymore. I believe it to be
accurate. Since an IPC is essentially an instrumet checkride given by
a CFII, and an instrument checkride consists of only 3 approaches
anyway, it stands to reason that an IPC and currency needs not be
something more than the original practical test consisted of. The
sucessful instrument applicant left the checkride current to fly IFR
in the system with only 3 approaches demonstrated.


I agree that both an instrument checkride and an IPC need not include more
than three approaches. Still, as the regs are written, neither a
just-completed instrument checkride, nor a just-completed IPC, waives the
requirement of 61.57c to have flown six approaches in the past six months in
order to be instrument-current. But I have no idea whether the FAA
interprets the regs as written (the FAQ you cite suggests that they don't).

--Gary


 




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