2nd Lesson

Well, just got back from my 2nd flying lesson.
It was a perfectly clear day. Not a cloud to be seen. A little blustery on
the ground, but nothing major.
Today, I did my first take-off. I wasn't expecting it to be such an intense
experience. It was much twitchier than I was expecting. Not really sure what
I was expecting to be honest.
Anyway, barrelled down the runway, and at 50kts gently pulled the stick
back. Up we went. Pretty much nailed the climb rate which I was pleased
about. I had been worried about pulling back too hard, or not enough.
The air was fairly rough for the first 500ft, but then settled down, with
the exception of a few hefty reminders that the wind was still about, thrown
in for good measure.
It had been just over 2 weeks since my first lesson, due to bad weather the
previous weekend.After about 10 minutes or so, my instructor was satisfied I
was once again comfortable with the handling of the a/c, and we moved onto
todays lesson. Climbing and descending.
We did about 3 step climbs, and she was satisfied I was understanding the
concept well. After the 3rd one, I was feeling confident with it. Same with
descents. I actually enjoyed the descents for some reason. It's hard to
explain why I felt that way. I think I maybe felt like it was ME flying,
rather than the plane flying. You know what I mean? I know I AM flying the
plane, but it's hard to describe. Maybe it was because the power was down,
and I could hear more, I don't know.
Next was climbing turns and descending turns. Didn't really have any trouble
with these, again, I enjoyed the descending turns a great deal! :-)
Lastly, we covered medium turns and steep turns. Medium turns were fine, as
most of my turns so far have been a bit closer to medium turns than shallow
turns anyway! ;-)
Steep turns were a little more difficult. On the first one, I lost some
altitude, but on the second attampt I was within the 40-50ft tollerance she
allowed me. Was getting a little more blustery by this stage too, so half
way through a turn, mother nature would say hello and push my nice 30 degree
turn into a 45 degree turn for a brief second.
So, now I have a total of 1.9 hours, with the next lesson booked for next
weekend. Next lesson is Stalls, providing the weather affords us a high
cloud ceiling. If not, it's landings apparently! My instructor says she
thinks I'm progressing sufficiently well enough to proceed to the next steps
so I must be doing ok. :-)
One thing I did notice, and I commented on it with my instructor, is that I
don't feel that I am using the rudders enough because I can't physically
feel any movement with my feet. She told me that I am moving them, and that
it only requires very small movements, and the a/c is responding to my
miniscule inputs just nicely. Maybe my shoe soles are just too thick? :-)
Crash Lander

Crash Lander wrote
Steep turns were a little more difficult. so half way through
a turn, mother nature would say hello and push my nice 30 degree
turn into a 45 degree turn for a brief second.

30 degrees angle of bank is not a steep turn, 45-60 degrees is.
REF...FAA Airplane Flying Handbook 9-1..
The steep turn maneuver consists of a turn in either
direction, using a bank angle between 45 to 60°. This
will cause an overbanking tendency during which
maximum turning performance is attained and
relatively high load factors are imposed. Because of the
high load factors imposed, these turns should be
performed at an airspeed that does not exceed the
airplane’s design maneuvering speed (VA). The
principles of an ordinary steep turn apply, but as a
practice maneuver the steep turns should be continued
until 360° or 720° of turn have been completed.

So, now I have a total of 1.9 hours, with the next lesson
booked for next weekend. Next lesson is Stalls, providing
the weather affords us a high cloud ceiling. If not, it's
landings apparently!

What happened to 'slow flight', 'ground reference maneuvers',
and 'traffic pattern' instruction and practice?

Sounds as if your instructor is doing the old 'walking before
crawling' routine.

I would highly recommend that you review the table of contents
for the Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A since it generally
outlines the normal flow of the flight training curriculum.
Note that 'landings' are covered in chapter 8 and everything in
the previous 7 chapters should have been taught and mastered
prior to landings.

Your instructor is putting the cart before the horse. Ground
reference maneuvers should be mastered before any attempt at teaching
the traffic pattern and the traffic pattern mastered before the
student is allowed that first 'crash'. :-)

The FAA-H-8083-3A in PDF format is available on-line at the FAA web
site, and will probably provide better instruction than you are
currently getting. Landings at 2 hours total time....rediculous,
one doesn't learn algebra before arithmetic.

One thing I did notice, and I commented on it with my instructor, is
that I don't feel that I am using the rudders enough because I can't
physically feel any movement with my feet. She told me that I am
moving them, and that it only requires very small movements, and the
a/c is responding to my miniscule inputs just nicely. Maybe my shoe
soles are just too thick? :-) Crash Lander

Yep!....I have my students take off those Reboks and learn in their
socks....it works.

Bob Moore
Flight Instructor, Airplanes/Instruments since 1970

I actually enjoyed the descents for some reason. It's hard to
explain why I felt that way. I think I maybe felt like it was ME flying,
rather than the plane flying.

In a normal descent you can see more over the nose than in a normal
climb. Bet that contributed to your enjoyment too.

Keep it up!

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

What happened to 'slow flight', 'ground reference maneuvers',
and 'traffic pattern' instruction and practice?

Sounds as if your instructor is doing the old 'walking before
crawling' routine.

Sometimes that's a good idea. At least for me, if I have a framework
into which to put a lesson, I absorb it better. In this case, a few
stalls and a few landings, could set up a framework in which slow flight
and such makes sense.

Not everyone learns the same way.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Does your instructor use a syllabus, and provide you with a copy? Hard to
tell from where I am sitting, but it seems to me that you are being pushed
into things you are not ready for. Successfully, apparently, but the key to
flight training is the building block concept, where each new maneuver
depends on a foundation of basic elements learned and mastered earlier. She
may be having you install the front door before the crawl space has been
completed. ASA sells a syllabus for $6.95...should be available at your
local pilot supply shop, from Sporty's, or from the publisher at
1-800-asa2fly. Even if your instructor does not want to follow the syllabus,
it will give you an idea of what should be taught and in what sequence so
that you do not miss anything.

In a thread in another pilot forum, a shiny new private pilot admitted that
his instructor had never explained much of the communications information on
sectional charts and did not make the student aware that such a thing as an
Airport/Facility Directory even exists. How he got through the oral is a
mystery. So you need a "map" of the path your instruction will take.

Rudder use is a matter of pressures, not movements. Sounds like you are
doing just fine.

Bob Gardner

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
Well, just got back from my 2nd flying lesson.
It was a perfectly clear day. Not a cloud to be seen. A little blustery on
the ground, but nothing major.
Today, I did my first take-off. I wasn't expecting it to be such an
intense
experience. It was much twitchier than I was expecting. Not really sure
what
I was expecting to be honest.
Anyway, barrelled down the runway, and at 50kts gently pulled the stick
back. Up we went. Pretty much nailed the climb rate which I was pleased
about. I had been worried about pulling back too hard, or not enough.
The air was fairly rough for the first 500ft, but then settled down, with
the exception of a few hefty reminders that the wind was still about,
thrown
in for good measure.
It had been just over 2 weeks since my first lesson, due to bad weather
the
previous weekend.After about 10 minutes or so, my instructor was satisfied
I
was once again comfortable with the handling of the a/c, and we moved onto
todays lesson. Climbing and descending.
We did about 3 step climbs, and she was satisfied I was understanding the
concept well. After the 3rd one, I was feeling confident with it. Same
with
descents. I actually enjoyed the descents for some reason. It's hard to
explain why I felt that way. I think I maybe felt like it was ME flying,
rather than the plane flying. You know what I mean? I know I AM flying the
plane, but it's hard to describe. Maybe it was because the power was down,
and I could hear more, I don't know.
Next was climbing turns and descending turns. Didn't really have any
trouble
with these, again, I enjoyed the descending turns a great deal! :-)
Lastly, we covered medium turns and steep turns. Medium turns were fine,
as
most of my turns so far have been a bit closer to medium turns than
shallow
turns anyway! ;-)
Steep turns were a little more difficult. On the first one, I lost some
altitude, but on the second attampt I was within the 40-50ft tollerance
she
allowed me. Was getting a little more blustery by this stage too, so half
way through a turn, mother nature would say hello and push my nice 30
degree
turn into a 45 degree turn for a brief second.
So, now I have a total of 1.9 hours, with the next lesson booked for next
weekend. Next lesson is Stalls, providing the weather affords us a high
cloud ceiling. If not, it's landings apparently! My instructor says she
thinks I'm progressing sufficiently well enough to proceed to the next
steps
so I must be doing ok. :-)
One thing I did notice, and I commented on it with my instructor, is that
I
don't feel that I am using the rudders enough because I can't physically
feel any movement with my feet. She told me that I am moving them, and
that
it only requires very small movements, and the a/c is responding to my
miniscule inputs just nicely. Maybe my shoe soles are just too thick? :-)
Crash Lander

Hi Crash;

Bob Moore and Gardner pretty much summed up what I would be saying to you at
this point.
I'm a bit confused by the progression path you seem to be on for a second
lesson.
I'm getting the picture that you are either a natural born Chuck Yeager or
your instructor might be pushing things a bit.
This having been said, I realize that any and all feedback you will be
getting here on the forum is after the fact and as such doesn't include the
on sight perspective of your instructor who is right there and has the
actual handle on what's going on.
For now, I'll assume you are doing QUITE WELL and your instructor is
allowing for this.
Anyway....keep us posted :-))
Sounds like you're having a ball.
Dudley


"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
Well, just got back from my 2nd flying lesson.
It was a perfectly clear day. Not a cloud to be seen. A little blustery on
the ground, but nothing major.
Today, I did my first take-off. I wasn't expecting it to be such an
intense
experience. It was much twitchier than I was expecting. Not really sure
what
I was expecting to be honest.
Anyway, barrelled down the runway, and at 50kts gently pulled the stick
back. Up we went. Pretty much nailed the climb rate which I was pleased
about. I had been worried about pulling back too hard, or not enough.
The air was fairly rough for the first 500ft, but then settled down, with
the exception of a few hefty reminders that the wind was still about,
thrown
in for good measure.
It had been just over 2 weeks since my first lesson, due to bad weather
the
previous weekend.After about 10 minutes or so, my instructor was satisfied
I
was once again comfortable with the handling of the a/c, and we moved onto
todays lesson. Climbing and descending.
We did about 3 step climbs, and she was satisfied I was understanding the
concept well. After the 3rd one, I was feeling confident with it. Same
with
descents. I actually enjoyed the descents for some reason. It's hard to
explain why I felt that way. I think I maybe felt like it was ME flying,
rather than the plane flying. You know what I mean? I know I AM flying the
plane, but it's hard to describe. Maybe it was because the power was down,
and I could hear more, I don't know.
Next was climbing turns and descending turns. Didn't really have any
trouble
with these, again, I enjoyed the descending turns a great deal! :-)
Lastly, we covered medium turns and steep turns. Medium turns were fine,
as
most of my turns so far have been a bit closer to medium turns than
shallow
turns anyway! ;-)
Steep turns were a little more difficult. On the first one, I lost some
altitude, but on the second attampt I was within the 40-50ft tollerance
she
allowed me. Was getting a little more blustery by this stage too, so half
way through a turn, mother nature would say hello and push my nice 30
degree
turn into a 45 degree turn for a brief second.
So, now I have a total of 1.9 hours, with the next lesson booked for next
weekend. Next lesson is Stalls, providing the weather affords us a high
cloud ceiling. If not, it's landings apparently! My instructor says she
thinks I'm progressing sufficiently well enough to proceed to the next
steps
so I must be doing ok. :-)
One thing I did notice, and I commented on it with my instructor, is that
I
don't feel that I am using the rudders enough because I can't physically
feel any movement with my feet. She told me that I am moving them, and
that
it only requires very small movements, and the a/c is responding to my
miniscule inputs just nicely. Maybe my shoe soles are just too thick? :-)
Crash Lander

Bob Gardner writes:

Does your instructor use a syllabus, and provide you with a copy? Hard to
tell from where I am sitting, but it seems to me that you are being pushed
into things you are not ready for. Successfully, apparently, but the key to
flight training is the building block concept, where each new maneuver
depends on a foundation of basic elements learned and mastered earlier.

It may be a business decision. Students are more likely to continue
their studies if they do things that are interesting. If the boring
stuff is saved for last, not only are they likely to pay for more
lessons, even if they eventually quit, but they are more likely to put
up with the boring stuff later, if they've already invested a lot of
money in lessons. If the boring stuff comes first, some students may
give up right there, which brings about quite a loss of revenue.

As long as everything is covered eventually, does the order make a
difference?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote
As long as everything is covered eventually, does the order make a
difference?

Sure as hell does...try teaching a student to read before he
learns the alphabet. He may memorize the book, but still does
not know how to read.

Bob Moore

"Jose" wrote in message
om...
I actually enjoyed the descents for some reason. It's hard to
explain why I felt that way. I think I maybe felt like it was ME flying,
rather than the plane flying.

In a normal descent you can see more over the nose than in a normal climb.
Bet that contributed to your enjoyment too.

Keep it up!

Jose
--
I'd suggest that had a big part in it!
Crash ander

Mxsmanic wrote:
...
It may be a business decision. Students are more likely to continue
their studies if they do things that are interesting. If the boring
stuff is saved for last, not only are they likely to pay for more
lessons, even if they eventually quit, but they are more likely to put
up with the boring stuff later, if they've already invested a lot of
money in lessons. If the boring stuff comes first, some students may
give up right there, which brings about quite a loss of revenue.

Always precede total BS with "may be." Makes it a safe
statement. But if you've never undergone any flight training,
much less have been a CFI, nor even ridden in a light GA
aircraft, you should accept the reality of how stupid your posts are.

F--