Vertica V3?

There has been stability problems with XCSoar running on
Android in Dell Streak phone.

When I started to look at flight computers for more serious XC
flying, I was scared away from IPAQs because of battery and
SW disappearing problems.

At that time Oudie was very expensive and not sunlight readable
IMO, and all Windows CE platforms had very poor display
resolution. So I purchased LG phone running Android. I
damaged it a little during outlanding, but I still use it sometimes.
I have never had any SW problems with it

DELL Streak still has the best display in practice, but it took
some time for me to get it working well. The operating system
needs to be updated, and it is difficult to do, since no more
support from DELL.

For me the wireless data communication is very important. I
want that my position can be seen by others at home online,
and I appreciate possibility to upload flights to OLC (& Skylines).
I still feel that the loading XCSoar updates from Google Play
store is amazingly simple.

Maybe the most important for me is the possibility to charge the
phone using IOIO card, and at the same time use it for serial
communication with several devices, like FLARMs and loggers,
variometers, and beeing able to define the task and loading it to
several devices easily.

I believe that these open source SW project have caused major
improvement to the gliding SW in general. The commercial SW
developers are surely following the development intensively,
and copying the best parts into their product.

Cost is one thing. But let's not forget one important thing: those who fly
club gliders cannot install a nice LX, altair, clearnav etc. so they must
have an independent removable solution.

Anyway, the thread was about V3 which I am afraid does not exist.


"Roel Baardman" wrote in message
...

But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the same story for car
navigators, no difference.

Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those people to buy a separate
device instead of something like an Altair/LX9000 or similar devices?

I think it is correct to say that problems with android are related to
environent, not to the OS itself.
Windows CE practically run alone, with no other tasks , on the device. It is
damn fast, limited on many aspects such as memory management, GDI, no
arguing, but what is not there cannot break.
When you run an android device, other software components are running in the
background together with the navigation software.
We may all agree on this fact, it is a matter of fine tuning the environment
sometimes, not only to install a software that can work flawlessy by itself.

This does explains why a dedicated device is somehow better, if fine tuned
for the scope, and why companies like Garmin and TomTom use their own OS
version (fine tuned out of linux, I guess).
Then the hunt for the perfect flight navigator moves from hardware to OS
tuning, because without the environment being friendly what you get is an
unstable device.

The advantage of CE is that there is nothing to tune. Also because tuning
it up, wouldnt make things much better HEHEHE



wrote in message
...

I have a friend that is using his android phone as his nav computer. He
missed scoring a race day because having forgotten to place the phone in
"aircraft mode" a call interrupted his IGC trace. I personally like my
phone in the "off" mode for battery preservation and my MIO in the "on" mode
for navigation.

Lane

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:16:47 PM UTC, Richard wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:


The Oudie 2 Lite is available and runs the free programs.



I have several customers that replaced the V2 with the Oudie 2 Lite and say the Oudie is a much nicer unit and when you finally get the cabling and power converters for the V2 the Oudie is less expensive.



http://www.craggyaero.com/oudie.htm


Hi Richard. It seems surprising that anyone has yet moved on from the V2 since it only became available quite late in the 2012 soaring season. They must have been really disappointed with the V2 to move on from it immediately, whereas I have not previously heard of anyone being disappointed with the V2/GliderGuider. What do these customers find that the Oudie 2 Lite does better than the V2?

In the UK, the GliderGuider comes for £265 including interface cables and carry case. The Oudie 2 Lite comes for £294, including interface cables but not carry case - in both cases plus shipping.

I bought a GliderGuider to replace my Oudie 1, rather than upgrading the Oudie to a brighter screen. I wanted the GG for the aviation optimised internal gps - more accurate positions while thermalling should mean better wind calculations, and better calculations of everything which depends on wind. I can see benefits of the Oudie but I would recommend the GG or equivalent to those expecting to use the internal gps.

I am generally very pro Naviter - excellent software and good support. I am using SeeYou Mobile on the GliderGuider rather than the free alternatives.

This does explains why a dedicated device is somehow better, if fine tuned for the scope, and why companies like Garmin and TomTom use their own OS version
(fine tuned out of linux, I guess).

I've always wondered if there are no sunlight readable devices (or perhaps separate displays) running a normal Linux environment.
In the past Familiar Linux ran on the 3870s (it still does, but its all very outdated), but that ended some years ago.

I believe that these open source SW project have caused major
improvement to the gliding SW in general. The commercial SW
developers are surely following the development intensively,
and copying the best parts into their product.

Well let's hope they are not just copying them without having a look at the license... XCSoar (and LK8000) are free and open-source, but under a license that only allows others to use the source code if their software will be free and open-source too.

Correct, Oudie is still using the Atlas chipset which provides inaccurate
and often very wrong position while doing tight turns at our gliding speed
ranges, but offers also better performances.
This means no wind calculated, at all, if someone think about using the
internal gps.
If you connect it to an external source, it is of course just fine and
faster.
I think both prices are appealing, and Naviter is doing a good offer.


"waremark" wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:16:47 PM UTC, Richard wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:


The Oudie 2 Lite is available and runs the free programs.



I have several customers that replaced the V2 with the Oudie 2 Lite and
say the Oudie is a much nicer unit and when you finally get the cabling
and power converters for the V2 the Oudie is less expensive.



http://www.craggyaero.com/oudie.htm


Hi Richard. It seems surprising that anyone has yet moved on from the V2
since it only became available quite late in the 2012 soaring season. They
must have been really disappointed with the V2 to move on from it
immediately, whereas I have not previously heard of anyone being
disappointed with the V2/GliderGuider. What do these customers find that the
Oudie 2 Lite does better than the V2?

In the UK, the GliderGuider comes for £265 including interface cables and
carry case. The Oudie 2 Lite comes for £294, including interface cables but
not carry case - in both cases plus shipping.

I bought a GliderGuider to replace my Oudie 1, rather than upgrading the
Oudie to a brighter screen. I wanted the GG for the aviation optimised
internal gps - more accurate positions while thermalling should mean better
wind calculations, and better calculations of everything which depends on
wind. I can see benefits of the Oudie but I would recommend the GG or
equivalent to those expecting to use the internal gps.

I am generally very pro Naviter - excellent software and good support. I am
using SeeYou Mobile on the GliderGuider rather than the free alternatives.

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:51:37 AM UTC-5, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
Have you ever developed any applications for either one of those platforms?

Quite the opposite. My background is in system software, from kernel up to the APIs called by application developers. So my perspective is different.. My career focus was on establishing the reliability of distributed systems inter-operating over multiple platforms, not web applications, more like the stuff you would find running in the back rooms on Wall Street and in another product on the back end of Dropbox.com There was a high value put on reliability.

I'm not a PNA developer, so I don't have a pony in this OS race. I'm an end user and I have the background to pose questions. Pardon my blind spots.


On Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:25:56 AM UTC-5, wrote:

An interesting analogy. The number of unmanned spacecraft losses from software issues is nothing short of spectacular,

My point is that NASA choose to freeze development of some software and hardware because they realized that fixing known defects could introduce more serious defects. "The devil that you know is better than the devil that you don't know". In that sense CE is more predictable than Android.

There's an awful lot of factors that have to come together to create a stable system, and very little substitute for intensive testing under diverse conditions. That's one thing that mass-market Android devices have in spades.

There is even more "testing under diverse conditions" when you consider that Android is derived from Linux and Linux shares DNA with unixes that predate Windows CE. That said, the best testing will only find a fraction of the lurking defects, and many defects encountered by end users will not be recognized as defects or reported. With that in mind, the way to create better code is to create fewer defects earlier in development. You can of course keep testing until you find no more defects, but that tells you nothing about the defects that your tests don't touch. Testing often produces false confidence and massive "testing" by end-users can yield a similar false confidence.


On Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:33:15 PM UTC-5, pcool wrote:
I think it is correct to say that problems with android are related to
environent, not to the OS itself. Windows CE practically run alone, with no other tasks , on the device.

Good point. CE is a known quantity. Android devices also run the risk of malware and viruses. Ce virus and malware are not likely. If I ran PNA Android in the air, I would run it on a clean install of the OS with no other applications running (and on a tablet, not a phone).

makin open source-code is a bit like publishing a scientific article,
others papers cannot (or should not) copy 1:1 but the idea can be
used.
But that in part of the game, as well as debate of the features
(including user interfaces ;^)

At 19:36 10 January 2013, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
I believe that these open source SW project have caused major
improvement to the gliding SW in general. The commercial SW
developers are surely following the development intensively,
and copying the best parts into their product.

Well let's hope they are not just copying them without having a look
at the
license... XCSoar (and LK8000) are free and open-source, but
under a
license that only allows others to use the source code if their
software
will be free and open-source too.