XCSoar / LK8000

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mas

On Monday, March 11, 2013 12:33:43 PM UTC+1, Paul Remde wrote:
It is my understanding that the Oudie 2 Lite is considerably faster and has
faster screen updates than the V2.

True. The Vertica V2 has an ARMv5 CPU with 460 MHz, while the Oudie has an ARMv6 CPU with 500 MHz. Of course, the ARMv6 gives more bang for the MHz.

Both are horribly outdated; modern products come with quad-core ARMv7 with 1200+ MHz each. The usability difference is obvious.

On Sunday, 10 March 2013 02:11:53 UTC, MNLou wrote:
I am about to make my first foray into the world of soaring software.



I will, most likely, be using a Naviter Oudie Lite hooked up to a Cambridge 302. My focus will be cross country flight (versus contest flying) for the foreseeable future.



I have read reviews and comments about both XCSoar and LK8000. They both appear to be fine products with excellent functionality.



I would be interested in your comments on ease of use (both on the ground and in the air), learning curve / ease of set up, and if one is better suited for cross country flying.



Thanks in advance for your help!

On the choice of hardware, between Oudie 2 and Vertica V2/GliderGuider/WingsandWheels AVier (all the same unit), there are pros and cons. The Oudie 2 uses less battery (probably c 0.2 Ah vs 0.3 Ah, in either case I suggest plugging into the glider fully charged), and has more internal memory and a faster processor which seems to give faster screen redrawing. The Vertica etc has an internal GPS which is more suitable for gliding and so is the device I would recommend if you expect to use the internal GPS rather than always rely on an external GPS source. I bought the GliderGuider to replace my original model Oudie - the GliderGuider was good value in the UK and came with excellent service. I am running SeeYou Mobile on it, which for me makes the things I do often easier than the free programs.

Another piece of advice.

Ignore the incipient flame war and just look at the
software (and maybe talk to some users)

+1

Both should be able to connect to Condor or some other simulator
capable of sending NMEA output over RS232 or TCP/IP. Perhaps this is
suitable to simulate a flight for yourself and see how you like each
program.

I cannot comment on the original question about XCSoar versus LK8000
and which to use as I have only flown with SeeYou Mobile on the Oudie
(and GlideNav II on a HP PDA).

But, here are links (and links to links) to good descriptions on the
Naviter forum on how to have either tool running on the same Oudie -
which would allow you to have the best of both worlds and to trial
both tools.

http://forum.naviter.com/threads/479...r-on-the-Oudie
http://forum.naviter.com/threads/256...ghlight=xcsoar

Good luck, John

I would recommend making a fairly quick choice between the software options and putting the time into studying the chosen version. They will all do your job well. If you spend too long choosing you will not only waste time but also end up confused.

On Monday, March 11, 2013 10:13:55 AM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
I would recommend making a fairly quick choice between the software options and putting the time into studying the chosen version. They will all do your job well. If you spend too long choosing you will not only waste time but also end up confused.

So, Max, Paolo or US pilots:

Is either of these two packages useable in a US contest? Do they depict US start, turnpoint and finish definitions, tell you if you're under the top for 2 minutes, help plan time completion for area and mat tasks, compute final glides to a finish cylinder with a minimum altitude, compute final glides around additional turnpoints (mat)? Can you input a task in less than 15 minutes? Is there a quick task A task B option (almost all in air task changes are now A to B)?

I tried xcsoar many years ago. Charlie Spratt changed the task in the air. 15 minutes later on my second reboot, I swore it off. Is contest task entry any easier than back then?

If not, is anyone working on a "US contest" package for either program?

Please no flame wars on how stupid our rules are for using cylinders, 2 minute rules, in air task changes, etc. The rules are what they are. The question is, can this software help a pilot to deal with the rules as they are?

John Cochrane

On Monday, March 11, 2013 5:22:15 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Do they depict US start, turnpoint and finish definitions

Sorry, I don't know US task rules. If there's anything missing, you should write a ticket (http://bugs.xcsoar.org/newticket).

tell you if you're under the top for 2 minutes

I havn't heard of that feature, but then again, I don't fly contests. (I'm just one of several XCSoar developers, I don't know every part of XCSoar)

help plan time completion for area and mat tasks

Yes for AAT, never heard of "MAT".

compute final glides to a finish cylinder with a minimum altitude

Yes.

compute final glides around additional turnpoints (mat)?

Again, don't about about MAT.

Can you input a task in less than 15 minutes?

It usually takes me a minute on my Streak.

Is there a quick task A task B option (almost all in air task changes are now A to B)?

You mean you have two active tasks, and switch between the two? No, but thanks to our excellent task engine, that would not be hard to implement. If it's really useful for contest pilots.

I tried xcsoar many years ago. Charlie Spratt changed the task in the air. 15 minutes later on my second reboot, I swore it off. Is contest task entry any easier than back then?

The task engine and the task editor have been rewritten from scratch in XCSoar 6.0. XCSoar has come a very long way since the dark 5.x days.

If not, is anyone working on a "US contest" package for either program?

No, our goal is to have everything in the "mainline". So if any US pilot decides to hack XCSoar code, please contact us for merging the new features.

On Monday, March 11, 2013 11:32:55 AM UTC-5, Max Kellermann wrote:
On Monday, March 11, 2013 5:22:15 PM UTC+1, wrote:

Do they depict US start, turnpoint and finish definitions



Sorry, I don't know US task rules. If there's anything missing, you should write a ticket (http://bugs.xcsoar.org/newticket).



tell you if you're under the top for 2 minutes



I havn't heard of that feature, but then again, I don't fly contests. (I'm just one of several XCSoar developers, I don't know every part of XCSoar)



help plan time completion for area and mat tasks



Yes for AAT, never heard of "MAT".



compute final glides to a finish cylinder with a minimum altitude



Yes.



compute final glides around additional turnpoints (mat)?



Again, don't about about MAT.



Can you input a task in less than 15 minutes?



It usually takes me a minute on my Streak.



Is there a quick task A task B option (almost all in air task changes are now A to B)?



You mean you have two active tasks, and switch between the two? No, but thanks to our excellent task engine, that would not be hard to implement. If it's really useful for contest pilots.



I tried xcsoar many years ago. Charlie Spratt changed the task in the air. 15 minutes later on my second reboot, I swore it off. Is contest task entry any easier than back then?



The task engine and the task editor have been rewritten from scratch in XCSoar 6.0. XCSoar has come a very long way since the dark 5.x days.



If not, is anyone working on a "US contest" package for either program?



No, our goal is to have everything in the "mainline". So if any US pilot decides to hack XCSoar code, please contact us for merging the new features..

Max,
I loaded every one of the above mentioned software packages on my new Avier (V2 sold by WingsAndWheels) plus Winpilot Pro and SeeYou Mobile for testing. Still trying to decide if I should abandon WinPilot which works very well for US contest flying.
However, running XCSoar on my new Nexus 7 just blows me away. The graphics and speed are unbelievable. Problem is, the Nexus is a little too big for the cockpit but I think the screen is very readable in sunlight with brighness turned up. Thanks for porting XCS for Android! I also use the Nexus and XCS to display flight data in Condor via Bluetooth.
Herb Kilian

On 03/11/2013 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Monday, March 11, 2013 10:13:55 AM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
I would recommend making a fairly quick choice between the software options and putting the time into studying the chosen version. They will all do your job well. If you spend too long choosing you will not only waste time but also end up confused.

So, Max, Paolo or US pilots:

Hi John, I've been using XCSoar in contests since 2008 in US and Canada.
I hope I can answer your questions below.

Is either of these two packages useable in a US contest? Do they depict US start, turnpoint and finish definitions, tell you if you're under the top for 2 minutes, help plan time completion for area and mat tasks, compute final glides to a finish cylinder with a minimum altitude, compute final glides around additional turnpoints (mat)? Can you input a task in less than 15 minutes? Is there a quick task A task B option (almost all in air task changes are now A to B)?


US Start - yes

turnpoints and finish - yes

2 minute count down below top - yes

AAT/TAT completion and optimal distance based on current MC setting
(automatic or manual imput) - yes

MAT - set up same as TAT with smaller cyliners, functionality could be
improved (automatic TP selection or some such)

compute final glides to a finish cylinder with a minimum altitude - yes

compute final glides around additional turnpoints (mat)? - if you are
above final glide the computer switches to final glide mode regardles of
how many turnpoints are ahead (even has built in safety based on current
altitude as per your excellent article)

Can you input a task in less than 15 minutes? - current task programing
is probably the simplest i have ever used, 1 minute is not an exaggeration

Is there a quick task A task B option (almost all in air task changes
are now A to B) - absolutely, I typically program task a and b on the
ground and save them, if we are given dump tasks at the beginning of the
contest i punch them in and save them as well, ready to be loaded in the
air at any time

As any other system there are nuances to get around, but if you want I
can show you my setup next month in Perry..

Cheers,
Luke Szczepaniak





I tried xcsoar many years ago. Charlie Spratt changed the task in the air. 15 minutes later on my second reboot, I swore it off. Is contest task entry any easier than back then?

If not, is anyone working on a "US contest" package for either program?

Please no flame wars on how stupid our rules are for using cylinders, 2 minute rules, in air task changes, etc. The rules are what they are. The question is, can this software help a pilot to deal with the rules as they are?

John Cochrane