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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20



 
 
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  #181  
Old June 2nd 20, 01:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neal Alders
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

I understand this particular accident was a distracted pilot issue. I was commenting on, and contributing to, the thread drift. My bad in that respect.

This still falls into another category though. Pilot discipline.

Rule number 1. FLY THE F**KING PLANE!

Rule number 2. See rule number 1.

In my studies of accidents (I am working towards getting on my Unions accident investigation team), there is never 1 reason for a crash. There is always 3.
Pilot discipline/distraction is more often in the first reason box than should be. Especially in General Aviation accidents.
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  #182  
Old June 2nd 20, 03:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Monday, June 1, 2020 at 5:58:03 PM UTC-7, Neal Alders wrote:
I understand this particular accident was a distracted pilot issue. I was commenting on, and contributing to, the thread drift. My bad in that respect.

This still falls into another category though. Pilot discipline.

Rule number 1. FLY THE F**KING PLANE!

Rule number 2. See rule number 1.

In my studies of accidents (I am working towards getting on my Unions accident investigation team), there is never 1 reason for a crash. There is always 3.
Pilot discipline/distraction is more often in the first reason box than should be. Especially in General Aviation accidents.


Virtually ALL of kiting glider accidents involve a distracted glider non-pilot. Telling them to fly the ****ing glider will be met with "Right, as soon as I close the canopy - what's your problem?"

Tom

  #183  
Old June 2nd 20, 04:16 AM
Delta8 Delta8 is offline
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A question for the Low tow advocates . How do CG hooks fare with low tow? Does the rope tend to pull to one side if some slack develops?

If there's a rope break in a low tow are you not in a worse position ?

Preventing cockpit distractions should be part of the pre flight checklist as a reminder . Maybe the last thing on your list ? " Fly first "
  #184  
Old June 2nd 20, 03:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20


As I have said before, I am a firm believer in the KISS principle until it has been proven to me that another approach needs to be taken. And, then, that approach should use only the least complex solution available. I earned my living as a design engineer for over 40 years, so this is not my first rodeo.

Tom


I am a firm advocate of low tow, having flown many tows in both positions over the last 40 years. In high density-altitude conditions and/or with a weak towplane, I believe low tow offers superior aerodynamic efficiency. Having said that, when a sailplane pilot loses control and initiates a kiting scenario, things happen so quickly that there is probably little benefit to being in low tow.

Mike
  #185  
Old June 2nd 20, 05:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 2:43:11 AM UTC-4, Delta8 wrote:
... How do CG hooks fare with low tow? ...


Here's another question about low tow:

Has a glider on low tow ever pulled the tail of the towplane DOWN and caused the towplane wing to stall?
  #186  
Old June 2nd 20, 05:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

Which is worse - a broken glider or a dead tow pilot?

I only had one tow where I yanked the release but the rope had already
broken an instant before.

On 6/1/2020 6:31 PM, wrote:
Neal,
This accident occurred when the Glider pilot was distracted by a canopy that swung open. He probably tried to grab it and didn’t maintain proper tow position! Even if he intended to fly low tow, the canopy distraction would result in the same (too high) tow position! I’d bet 90 % of ballooning accident happen on or shortly after takeoff where there is insufficient altitude to attempt low tow maneuvering. I wouldn’t want to attempt going into low tow below 1000 feet ...........an this altitude, 90% of the “ballooning” accidents have already occurred!

I hesitate to even bring this up, but my club had a ballooning accident last year involving a brand new tow pilot making his first tow and an instructor Glider pilot making his first flight the year. The Glider ballooned on takeoff and the tow pilot toggled him off, immediately............some said “too soon”? I didn’t see it and take no position on the issue, but I did see the broken Sailplane sitting in the sagebrush! Our club has no way to give dual tow pilot instruction . A new tow pilot is really making his “first tow”, with no dual instruction on towing whatsoever!
Food for thought,
JJ


--
Dan, 5J
  #187  
Old June 2nd 20, 06:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Hightime
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

How does one combat turbulence and fly smoothly in low tow with the tow plane 2 storeys above you ?
At least high tow puts the towplane and horizon at a reasonable perspective to help with stability .
  #188  
Old June 2nd 20, 06:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neal Alders
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

-A question for the Low tow advocates . How do CG hooks fare with low
tow?

A: No issues I am aware of at all.

-Does the rope tend to pull to one side if some slack develops?
A: Never saw slack in a rope on low tow, but, no.

-If there's a rope break in a low tow are you not in a worse position ?
A: Practiced a fair amount of them, never had an issue. It is really less than a wing span difference in altitude from proper high tow, to proper low tow.




  #189  
Old June 2nd 20, 06:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neal Alders
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

-Here's another question about low tow:

-Has a glider on low tow ever pulled the tail of the towplane DOWN and caused the towplane wing to stall?

A: No idea. Never heard of it happening, But, I would think you would need a proportionate amount of altitude to cause that, and a stall recovery is easier at low altitude when already at full power, especially if you dump the glider, than an extreme nose down at a far lower altitude on take off. Imagine the angles. Would you rather be nose up or nose down at 200 feet?
  #190  
Old June 2nd 20, 06:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neal Alders
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Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

-How does one combat turbulence and fly smoothly in low tow with the tow plane 2 storeys above you ?
At least high tow puts the towplane and horizon at a reasonable perspective to help with stability .

A: In a properly flown low tow, you are almost in "trail" with the tow plane. As in, viewed from tail hook down rope to nose hook. If the tow plane is 2 stories above you, then you are NOT in low tow. You are screwing up, significantly, if you are that low. You should be able to slide up 2 feet and just feel a touch of the tow planes prop wash.
 




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