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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 11th 20, 04:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Posts: 298
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

Hearing that this possibly involved a canopy popping open.

I'm sure the glider pilot feels horrible for this.

PA
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  #12  
Old May 11th 20, 06:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ireallyknowwhathappened
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Posts: 2
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

No details on this tragedy, yet we have those who assume they know....

An anonymous friend of an anonymous witness who said he might be wrong in what he saw

More than one blaming it on the towplane's release mechanism

The towpilot should have had his hand on the release

....and the best, a 3-in-1 judge, jury and witness... Glider pilot's fault and needs to go straight to jail
  #13  
Old May 11th 20, 01:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 59
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 9:37:28 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
Condolences to everybody in this tragedy. I am curious as to how many hours the glider pilot had? It says in the report that he landed safely. He should be charged with a crime.

Boggs


I made a couple of calls to family members who are legal experts or so they tell me. Only one answered and my aviation attorney seems to be sequestered deep in the forests of Massachusetts until this plague passes. Gliders/soaring seems to be considered a sport and under the legal doctrine of "assumption of the risk" I am informed it is quite difficult to bring a charge of any kind unless it can be proven that an unreasonable/purposeful act was committed. I guess they consider the tow pilot to be a participant and is assuming a degree of risk. Of course it all depends on the lawyers who get involved and the local charging authority. Some can sue the sun for going down and the tide for going out, welcome to America.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
  #14  
Old May 11th 20, 01:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 59
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20


In my opinion, it should be required for the towpilot to be able to keep his hand on the release for the first 500ft. In Pawnees, this can be done, with wrist also lying on the throttle to ensure it stays full forward.


This is assuming that all Pawnees have a handle NOT down on the floor but (as I insisted at one time) up where the pilot can grab it while in the upright and seated position. I know that many have been modified, I've been contacted by many tow pilots who told me it took some persuading but finally their club/commercial operation saw the light. I will also tell you that kiting incidents are not all slowly evolving types where the glider pilot has simply inserted their head up their ass for a few moments. Some are sudden and quite violent. In my last kiting experience even if I had my hand on the handle (which was down on the floor and difficult to reach) I would have been nose down more than 60 degrees and pointed at the ground before I could have reacted. At a low enough altitude this will be fatal the vast majority of the time.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

  #15  
Old May 11th 20, 01:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Karl Striedieck[_2_]
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Posts: 143
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

There are a few things that will make the Schweizer release a safer mechanism.

1 Inverting the release will eliminate all friction in the actuation.

2 Tow plane's release lever should be instantly accessible and have a high leverage configuration.

3 A careful dressing of the movable part of the release so that it is slightly curved where the capture slides off. This eliminates the increased force that the sliding capture generates as it starts sliding aft.

4 Tow pilots should include in their daily checklist a what if regarding rapidly getting rid of a kiting glider: where's the handle and which way does it go.

  #16  
Old May 11th 20, 02:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ian Lane
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Posts: 5
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20


Terribly sad when this sort of accident happens.

As one who has experienced an upset in a Pawnee, albeit at about 1500', I
can confirm how frighteningly quickly it happens. On that occasion I was
able to dump the glider (an ASH25) and recover safely. The glider pilot
admitted afterwards that he had been re-tuning his radio whilst on tow, and
had lost sight of me!!!

The release mechanism on our Pawnee, and on others I've flown in the UK,
is a cable and pulley system whereby the said cable runs vertically from
the the cockpit roof to just above the throttle lever and is really easy to
grab in an emergency - no fumbling for a knob or lever.

A study of towplane upsets was done quite a few years ago , following a
series of accidents in the UK. Certain factors were found to increase the
risks:

High wing glider

Towing on the belly hook

Inexperienced glider pilot, and particularly those that usually flew from a
winch-only site

Schweizer hook on towplane

Turbulent conditions

...and often a combination of most, or all, of these - a case of the holes
in the Swiss cheese lining up.













At 12:27 11 May 2020, wrote:

In my opinion, it should be required for the towpilot to be able to

keep
=
his hand on the release for the first 500ft. In Pawnees, this can be

done,
=
with wrist also lying on the throttle to ensure it stays full forward.

This is assuming that all Pawnees have a handle NOT down on the floor but
(=
as I insisted at one time) up where the pilot can grab it while in the
upri=
ght and seated position. I know that many have been modified, I've been
co=
ntacted by many tow pilots who told me it took some persuading but

finally
=
their club/commercial operation saw the light. I will also tell you that
k=
iting incidents are not all slowly evolving types where the glider pilot
ha=
s simply inserted their head up their ass for a few moments. Some are
sudde=
n and quite violent. In my last kiting experience even if I had my hand
on=
the handle (which was down on the floor and difficult to reach) I would
ha=
ve been nose down more than 60 degrees and pointed at the ground before I
c=
ould have reacted. At a low enough altitude this will be fatal the vast
ma=
jority of the time. =20

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot



  #17  
Old May 11th 20, 02:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Posts: 341
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 8:27:22 AM UTC-4, wrote:
In my opinion, it should be required for the towpilot to be able to keep his hand on the release for the first 500ft. In Pawnees, this can be done, with wrist also lying on the throttle to ensure it stays full forward.


This is assuming that all Pawnees have a handle NOT down on the floor but (as I insisted at one time) up where the pilot can grab it while in the upright and seated position. I know that many have been modified, I've been contacted by many tow pilots who told me it took some persuading but finally their club/commercial operation saw the light. I will also tell you that kiting incidents are not all slowly evolving types where the glider pilot has simply inserted their head up their ass for a few moments. Some are sudden and quite violent. In my last kiting experience even if I had my hand on the handle (which was down on the floor and difficult to reach) I would have been nose down more than 60 degrees and pointed at the ground before I could have reacted. At a low enough altitude this will be fatal the vast majority of the time.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot


The release on the floor is a huge contributing factor in many aspects of not being able to release during a kiting emergency. I will further state that the handle on the floor may be a bigger problem than the Schweizer release itself. The design of the newer pacific release negates the possibility of the connect ring going forward which may impede release. I have configured both of my Pawnee's so that the release handle is within easy accessibility and it has a long arm that would contribute to less load to engage the release.
  #18  
Old May 11th 20, 02:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 372
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 2:15:05 PM UTC+1, Ian Lane wrote:
Terribly sad when this sort of accident happens.

As one who has experienced an upset in a Pawnee, albeit at about 1500', I
can confirm how frighteningly quickly it happens. On that occasion I was
able to dump the glider (an ASH25) and recover safely. The glider pilot
admitted afterwards that he had been re-tuning his radio whilst on tow, and
had lost sight of me!!!

The release mechanism on our Pawnee, and on others I've flown in the UK,
is a cable and pulley system whereby the said cable runs vertically from
the the cockpit roof to just above the throttle lever and is really easy to
grab in an emergency - no fumbling for a knob or lever.

A study of towplane upsets was done quite a few years ago , following a
series of accidents in the UK. Certain factors were found to increase the
risks:

High wing glider

Towing on the belly hook

Inexperienced glider pilot, and particularly those that usually flew from a
winch-only site

Schweizer hook on towplane

Turbulent conditions

..and often a combination of most, or all, of these - a case of the holes
in the Swiss cheese lining up.


I bet you gave the ASH 25 pilot a bit of gentle ribbing over that Ian!

John G
  #19  
Old May 11th 20, 02:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ian Lane
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Posts: 5
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

You bet!



At 13:38 11 May 2020, wrote:
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 2:15:05 PM UTC+1, Ian Lane wrote:
Terribly sad when this sort of accident happens.

As one who has experienced an upset in a Pawnee, albeit at about 1500',

I
can confirm how frighteningly quickly it happens. On that occasion I

was
able to dump the glider (an ASH25) and recover safely. The glider pilot
admitted afterwards that he had been re-tuning his radio whilst on tow,

and
had lost sight of me!!!

The release mechanism on our Pawnee, and on others I've flown in the

UK,
is a cable and pulley system whereby the said cable runs vertically

from
the the cockpit roof to just above the throttle lever and is really

easy
to
grab in an emergency - no fumbling for a knob or lever.

A study of towplane upsets was done quite a few years ago , following a
series of accidents in the UK. Certain factors were found to increase

the
risks:

High wing glider

Towing on the belly hook

Inexperienced glider pilot, and particularly those that usually flew

from
a
winch-only site

Schweizer hook on towplane

Turbulent conditions

..and often a combination of most, or all, of these - a case of the

holes
in the Swiss cheese lining up.


I bet you gave the ASH 25 pilot a bit of gentle ribbing over that Ian!

John G


  #20  
Old May 11th 20, 04:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ireallyknowwhathappened
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Posts: 2
Default Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

The plane was trying to land, apparently. The pilot was killed while landing at the airport:https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...byron-airport/

Lawyer advises the survivors to pursue justice. :https://www.pacificattorneygroup.com...t-plane-crash/

 




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