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First glider Nimbus 2 ?



 
 
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  #101  
Old January 13th 21, 07:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Me
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Posts: 17
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 5:02:30 PM UTC-6, wrote:
wtorek, 12 stycznia 2021 o 22:35:53 UTC+1 napisaƂ(a):
On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 2:10:20 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 11:53:17 -0800, John Foster wrote:

Sorry for the long-winded reply. Just venting some of my frustrations.

Your situation analysis explains a lot I've wondered about in the US club
scene.

I would suggest looking at a 201 Std Libelle, but in the UK and Europe
they've been getting steadily more expensive for the last ten years.

What about a G.102 Astir? Quite a few belong to UK clubs and/or have been
the first glider bought by pilots over here, are easy to fly and fit the
Standard Class specifications (15m span, glass, some models carry water.

How are their prices and availability on your side of the pond?

Similarly, I like the Pegase 101 a lot, but have no idea about US prices.



--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

There is a Pegase 101 for sale right now on Wings & Wheels for $24,000. Standard Libelles (two) between $14,000 and $16,000. Two H301 Libelles are listed at $10,000 and $19,000. You can get them for less, but are usually in rough shape for less than $10,000. No G102 listed on W & W right now, but from what I remember, they are typically between $15,000 to $20,000. There is a G104 listed for $20,500. Even the old 1-26 seems to be going up in price, with current listings between $8,500 to $10,000. One Ka6CR listed for $6,000, and recent Ka8B have listed for $4,500 to $5,000.

"Marginally appropriate" (maybe not) for first glass ship would be an ASW 15 (not B model) for $7,000. Then there is the Standard Cirrus (again, maybe not the best choice as a first glass ship) for between $12,000 to $20,000 (one is a G81 model with conventional elevator/stabilizer instead of all-flying tail, for $19,900).

Otherwise you are looking at typically $20,000 to $40,000 for anything that people would traditionally recommend as a "first glass ship" that is "appropriate" for a low-time pilot, particularly one trained on the 2-33, as most training is done here in the USA.

Hi Martin
thanks for your hints, but Wings and Wheels is not an option for me, as I am from Poland, central east europan country on the other side of Atlantic . My hunting ground is www.segelflug.de, pracitaclly the only market for second hand gliders in Europe.
My budget is somewhere in the middle between 15kUSD and 10 kUSD, really modest but still I believe I can find something to fly. I get all sorts of good advice of "why don't you buy LS4 or ASW20 etc". Well...I would. If I had money, as they all are twice my budget. And waiting a few more years to save is not an option. I started flying late, I am 53 now and I am sick and tired of being pushed around with teenagers in waiting queues for club gliders. I would rather run a risk of flying a challenging glider than spend next few years saving for a better one or collecting miserable 10 - 15 hours of experience in a season because of limited access to equipment in the club.
What you wrote in your previous is also true for our polish gliding reality. Many people wishing to fly, few gliders, "privileged" members, constant struggle to fly at least 1 or 2 hours before passing the glider to others, or not flying at all...
Therefore I decided to either get my own glider or stop flying altogether.. I joined this thread on the forum becasue I was curious of opinions of more experienced pilots about my intention to get Nimbus. Tremendous value of this excercise was that people draw my attention of what could be possible advantages and drawbacks.
There were some opinions categorically dissuading me from the purchase. I gave particular attention to them, but after getting also many positive opinions I come to conclusion that most or utmost probably it is just the same like any other skill you learn. Persuing my other hobbies throughout my whole life I spent thousands of hours doing more or less risky things; I learned skiing well enough to become a skiing instructor, I learned windsurifing, kitesurfing, roller-blading, I learned to ride a motorbike, I have done probably 1 500 000 km of car driving without accident, I learned to fly powered planes and got PPL licence.

After all that I believe that ultimate factor of safety is good judgement and probably ability and bit of luck . Judgment of own capabilities, judgment of circumstances, judgment of conditions, you name it. Having flown my modest 170h I have almost never been reprimanded by my instructors for making any stupid/dangerous things. Yet some other guy who started gliding course with me nearly landed in someone's backyard, and yet another one once made downwind, straight-in approach being so low, that he practically slid onto the airfield with no air-brakes, close to stall speed. Both of them flew very safe and easy to fly single seatters (SZD-30 Pirat). I guess you can do very dangerous things in the safest glider, or you can fly safely more complex glider if you ensure that weather, landing area is not too challenging. I don't believe somehow that flying characteristics of two gliders could be worlds apart. I rather believe that flying mentalities could be worlds apart


Also..., I'm starting to see some red flags. I went to the classifieds you pointed to as a source and saw an apparently completely suitable well taken care of DG-100. Have you looked/inquired about at that glider? Seems a major red flag to me that you seem to have narrowed your "options" to the Nimbus 2 when a completely suitable glider that matches your skill level exactly is available. Are you sure your Nimbus decision isn't about something else? And you've never replied what your instructor recommendation is in this regard. Something is wrong.
  #102  
Old January 13th 21, 08:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Waveguru
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Posts: 178
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

Does anybody remember Lenny The Lurker......?


Boggs
  #103  
Old January 13th 21, 09:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 11:29:07 -0800, Waveguru wrote:

Does anybody remember Lenny The Lurker......?


Yep, but not exactly what glider he fancied. SGS 1.26?

That WAS a long time ago!


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #104  
Old January 14th 21, 01:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andreas Maurer[_2_]
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Posts: 37
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 15:02:28 -0800 (PST), Piotr Mis
wrote:


Hi Martin
thanks for your hints, but Wings and Wheels is not an option for me, as I am from Poland, central east europan country on the other side of Atlantic . My hunting ground is www.segelflug.de, pracitaclly the only market for second hand gliders in Europe.
My budget is somewhere in the middle between 15kUSD and 10 kUSD, really modest but still I believe I can find something to fly.


Hi Piotr,

plenty of really nice gliders in your price range on segelflug.de.

Think twice about an ASW-15, DG-100G, LS-1, and Standard Cirrus. Or
treat yourself to an Astir and have plenty of money left for a lot of
flying.


I'd dare to predict that one of those will be lot more fun in the long
ruin, and all of these gliders have one huge advantege: They can be
sold easily if you should decide to upgrade in the future.


Cheers
Andreas

p.s.
I'm from Germany, so, if you need some advice or help, feel free to
email me.

  #105  
Old January 14th 21, 03:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 546
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On 1/14/21 5:20 AM, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 15:02:28 -0800 (PST), Piotr Mis
wrote:


Hi Martin
thanks for your hints, but Wings and Wheels is not an option for me, as I am from Poland, central east europan country on the other side of Atlantic . My hunting ground is www.segelflug.de, pracitaclly the only market for second hand gliders in Europe.
My budget is somewhere in the middle between 15kUSD and 10 kUSD, really modest but still I believe I can find something to fly.


Hi Piotr,

plenty of really nice gliders in your price range on segelflug.de.

Think twice about an ASW-15, DG-100G, LS-1, and Standard Cirrus. Or
treat yourself to an Astir and have plenty of money left for a lot of
flying.


I'd dare to predict that one of those will be lot more fun in the long
ruin, and all of these gliders have one huge advantege: They can be
sold easily if you should decide to upgrade in the future.


Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.

  #106  
Old January 14th 21, 07:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Galloway[_2_]
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Posts: 58
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Thursday, 14 January 2021 at 14:49:17 UTC, kinsell wrote:
On 1/14/21 5:20 AM, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 15:02:28 -0800 (PST), Piotr Mis
wrote:


Hi Martin
thanks for your hints, but Wings and Wheels is not an option for me, as I am from Poland, central east europan country on the other side of Atlantic . My hunting ground is www.segelflug.de, pracitaclly the only market for second hand gliders in Europe.
My budget is somewhere in the middle between 15kUSD and 10 kUSD, really modest but still I believe I can find something to fly.


Hi Piotr,

plenty of really nice gliders in your price range on segelflug.de.

Think twice about an ASW-15, DG-100G, LS-1, and Standard Cirrus. Or
treat yourself to an Astir and have plenty of money left for a lot of
flying.


I'd dare to predict that one of those will be lot more fun in the long
ruin, and all of these gliders have one huge advantege: They can be
sold easily if you should decide to upgrade in the future.

Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.


The late models DG100G, LS1F and Grob built Std Cirruses have conventional tailplanes. Earlier variants of those 3, and the ASW 15 have all flying tailplanes.
  #107  
Old January 14th 21, 08:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Posts: 354
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 11:43:37 AM UTC-7, John Galloway wrote:
On Thursday, 14 January 2021 at 14:49:17 UTC, kinsell wrote:
On 1/14/21 5:20 AM, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 15:02:28 -0800 (PST), Piotr Mis
wrote:


Hi Martin
thanks for your hints, but Wings and Wheels is not an option for me, as I am from Poland, central east europan country on the other side of Atlantic . My hunting ground is www.segelflug.de, pracitaclly the only market for second hand gliders in Europe.
My budget is somewhere in the middle between 15kUSD and 10 kUSD, really modest but still I believe I can find something to fly.

Hi Piotr,

plenty of really nice gliders in your price range on segelflug.de.

Think twice about an ASW-15, DG-100G, LS-1, and Standard Cirrus. Or
treat yourself to an Astir and have plenty of money left for a lot of
flying.


I'd dare to predict that one of those will be lot more fun in the long
ruin, and all of these gliders have one huge advantege: They can be
sold easily if you should decide to upgrade in the future.

Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.


The late models DG100G, LS1F and Grob built Std Cirruses have conventional tailplanes. Earlier variants of those 3, and the ASW 15 have all flying tailplanes.


What options would you suggest for a budget less than $10,000?
  #108  
Old January 14th 21, 08:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Moshe Braner
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Posts: 114
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On 1/14/2021 1:43 PM, John Galloway wrote:
...

Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.


The late models DG100G, LS1F and Grob built Std Cirruses have conventional tailplanes. Earlier variants of those 3, and the ASW 15 have all flying tailplanes.


OK, but what is so bad about the all-flying tail? I know some models
had a reputation for no "feel" in the pitch control. Others less so.
Is it the all-flying tail, or some details of its design? Where the
hinge is placed along the chord of that tail would make a big
difference, no? And spring trim added to the system would make it
behave better when hands-off?

For example, Dick Johnson was regularly flying a Nimbus 2 IIRC, when he
did the flight test of the original Janus (both with all-flying tails).
He commented that "The well-balanced, all-movable horizontal tail (on
the Janus) provided good longitudinal stability at all speeds and was a
great improvement over the smaller poorly balanced Nimbus and Std.
Cirrus tails. It did, however, cause the longitudinal control to be
fairly sensitive to control stick position."
  #109  
Old January 14th 21, 10:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

Moshe Braner wrote on 1/14/2021 11:39 AM:
On 1/14/2021 1:43 PM, John Galloway wrote:
...

Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.


The late models DG100G, LS1F and Grob built Std Cirruses have conventional tailplanes.
Earlier variants of those 3, and the ASW 15 have all flying tailplanes.


OK, but what is so bad about the all-flying tail?* I know some models had a reputation for no
"feel" in the pitch control.* Others less so. Is it the all-flying tail, or some details of its
design?* Where the hinge is placed along the chord of that tail would make a big difference,
no?* And spring trim added to the system would make it behave better when hands-off?

For example, Dick Johnson was regularly flying a Nimbus 2 IIRC, when he did the flight test of
the original Janus (both with all-flying tails). *He commented that "The well-balanced,
all-movable horizontal tail (on the Janus) provided good longitudinal stability at all speeds
and was a great improvement over the smaller poorly balanced Nimbus and Std. Cirrus tails. It
did, however, cause the longitudinal control to be fairly sensitive to control stick position."


My Ka6e and Std Cirrus both had all-flying tails. Based on those gliders and comments from
other pilots in different gliders, I'd say "did cause the longitudinal control to be fairly
sensitive to control stick position" is what's wrong with all-flying tails, especially at high
speeds. Over 75 knots, I held the Std Cirrus stick in both hands, ditto for the Ka6e at some
slower speed I don't remember. I very much liked both those gliders, but it was a deep pleasure
to leave those gliders for the H301 - so steady at high speeds.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #110  
Old January 15th 21, 02:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Posts: 377
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Monday, 11 January 2021 at 17:23:51 UTC, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/11/21 2:31 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Ultimately, it's still your own decision what you buy, and depending on your skill, your club or CFI might allow it.
At our club, we have some pretty high demands. In order to fly solo on our Duo Discus, you need 75 hours solo, LS4 is 40 hours. If you were to buy something like Std Cirrus, Libelle or LS4, you need to have flown over 40 hours and at least 5 flights with the clubs LS4's. If you were to buy a flapped glider like Mosquito, PIK20, Mini Nimbus, you need to be solo on our Duo Discus (so 75 hours solo flight total) and flown at least 5 flights with a flapped glider in double with an instructor. Since we don't have a flapped glider owned by the club, there is a private Arcus owned by an instructor who you can pay to train.

Or you could just buy a self-launcher and tell the club, "Thanks, but no
thanks."

--
Dan
5J

At my UK club you need the consent of the Chief Flying Instructor to bring a private glider onto the site and to operate it from there.
 




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