Parachute 20 year limit

In these increasingly litigious days, I should have thought people who
run 2-seater flights without parachutes would be wise to learn from
this 1999 event:

“ . . . they were approximately 2,500 feet agl . . . the glider was
struck by lightning and large sections of its airframe disintegrated.

. . . . The student had already decided to abandon the glider and,
after he had departed, the instructor followed but was surprised when
he realised that he had not had to jettison his cockpit canopy. It was
estimated that both parachutes had successfully inflated by 1,800 feet
agl.”

Happy and safe soaring to you all.

Chris N.

On Dec 7, 8:15*am, Gregg Ballou wrote:

Impact with an open parachute?

I don't know for sure but my recollection was that the chute had
opened. No doubt there are others on this group that were at the
contest. I checked NTSB reports and don't find this accident listed.
There are only 5 reports for that month which is unusually low so I
suspect the on line records are not complete.

Andy

.. No doubt there are others on this group that were at the
contest.

I was there, flying my Duster. There was only one Q in the sky and it
was located at the IP.The two pilots climbed up into the Q and then
crossed wings in the mist. Several pilots watched as the ASW-20 pilot
struggled to get out by trying to open the canopy the same way he
always opened it..........unlatch the side locks and shove it up. He
never did pull the jettison knob. Finally got out, pulled the D ring,
chute deployed but he hit the ground before it could blossom.
Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a
message here for all of us.
JJ

I am often asked "how high do you have to be for the parachute to open if
you have to bail out"
I guess you could go on and on about just how much time it takes to exit the
glider, get into a proper position, deploy the parachute and make a safe,
soft landing...but my simple answer is, "if I know I am going to die in a
glider slamming into the ground, and there is a .000000001% chance I might
get out and survive with a parachute......I will be trying until the last
ounce of earth covers my shoe laces!" Honestly, I don't think when the
occasion appears anyone will be doing the math...and in a state of high
adrenalin time passes by very slowly...slow enough I don't think I want to
have this time to ponder the consequences...
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Bruce Hoult" wrote in message
...
On Dec 8, 4:26 am, TonyV wrote:
Chutes are worn as a matter of course in single seaters.

Pretty much the same at my (US) club. But, you have to ask "How weird is
that?".

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

I would say that with 3000 - 4000 ft cloudbases near the airfield and
2000 - 3000 ft terrain, our trial flights and training flights are
probably seldom high enough above the terrain for a parachute to be
any use to someone not intimately familiar with its use.

That's a great point, JJ.

The manual for my ASW-19 says "First push forward white canopy lock-
knobs, then pull red canopy release knob and push canopy upward."
Except for pulling the red knob, this is exactly how I always get out
of the cockpit! It's really easy to see how under stress I might do
the exact same thing this poor guy did.

It certainly makes a great deal of sense to practice exactly how you
would get out in the air, until it's second nature. I've read about
people who released their parachute straps before bailing out, simply
because they always get out of the plane that way...

-John

JJ Sinclair wrote:
Several pilots watched as the ASW-20 pilot
struggled to get out by trying to open the canopy the same way he
always opened it..........unlatch the side locks and shove it up. He
never did pull the jettison knob.
[...Snip...
Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a
message here for all of us.
JJ

JJ Sinclair wrote:
Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a
message here for all of us.

On just about every flight, and especially during a contest or XC with
friends, I make it a point to go through my "midair bailout"
procedure, while inflight: Tell myself "MIDAIR!", then touch
(carefully) the canopy jettison handles (both of them in my LS6) while
saying "pull handles push canopy away", then touch seatbelt buckle
"undo straps", then " get out of glider, pull ripcord".

Trying to get the old muscle memory up to speed....

Kirk
66

snip My position is there is no evidence the untrained glider pilot
will be
better off, and some chance the pilot might actually be worse off. /
snip

Eric,

There is no such thing as an untrained glider pilot (one with a
license, of course) -- a ram-air parachute *is* a glider. Emergency
ram-air chutes are extremely docile and easy to use. Pull the left
handle to go left. Pull the right to go right. Pull both gently when
approaching the ground if you want to flare it (which is not mandatory
for a safe touchdown).

I fly mostly in the southwest, where the landscape can be most
unfriendly to someone under a round parachute instead of a square.
(The first is a passenger, the latter a pilot.) I don't want to
survive a mid-air or glider breakup only to land in trees, canyons,
power lines or water.

Definitely consider a square emergency chute if you are ever in the
market for a new one. And if you live near a skydiving center, go make
a tandem jump and see just how easy it is.

~ted/2NO

Tuno wrote:
snip My position is there is no evidence the untrained glider pilot
will be
better off, and some chance the pilot might actually be worse off. /
snip

Eric,

There is no such thing as an untrained glider pilot (one with a
license, of course) -- a ram-air parachute *is* a glider. Emergency
ram-air chutes are extremely docile and easy to use.

That was not what I read on the websites of companies selling them, or
what I was told by a couple manufacturers of parachutes. They seemed
very sincere.

Pull the left
handle to go left. Pull the right to go right. Pull both gently when
approaching the ground if you want to flare it (which is not mandatory
for a safe touchdown).

Except for the flare part, isn't that how a round emergency works? How
fast is the ram-air emergency parachute? I'm told my Softie has about 5
mph forward speed and about 10 seconds to do a 360 degree turn, which
seems agile enough.

I fly mostly in the southwest, where the landscape can be most
unfriendly to someone under a round parachute instead of a square.
(The first is a passenger, the latter a pilot.) I don't want to
survive a mid-air or glider breakup only to land in trees, canyons,
power lines or water.

There are hazards everywhere, yet it seems if the pilot gets out (in
time), he survives, usually without any injury.

Definitely consider a square emergency chute if you are ever in the
market for a new one. And if you live near a skydiving center, go make
a tandem jump and see just how easy it is.

Too late! Bought a new Softie in March. I decided the potential
advantage of the ram-air was miniscule, and chance of mis-handling it
one way or the other was higher than miniscule. As far a tandem jump, I
decided the risk of that outweighed the fun and knowledge I'd get out it.

So far, 33 years, 6000 hours soaring, no jumps required. With luck and
good health, I'll be extremely annoyed in 20 years because no one will
repack my chute, and I have to buy a new one.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
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On Dec 8, 11:48 am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
JJ Sinclair wrote:
Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a
message here for all of us.

On just about every flight, and especially during a contest or XC with
friends, I make it a point to go through my "midair bailout"
procedure, while inflight: Tell myself "MIDAIR!", then touch
(carefully) the canopy jettison handles (both of them in my LS6) while
saying "pull handles push canopy away", then touch seatbelt buckle
"undo straps", then " get out of glider, pull ripcord".

Trying to get the old muscle memory up to speed....

Kirk
66

Agree completely. I posted a message up-thread my bailout and what
you are talking about is just what saved my bacon. I do the drill
after every landing, before I get out of the cockpit.

Mike

At 15:52 08 December 2008, jcarlyle wrote: (snip)
I've read about
people who released their parachute straps before bailing out, simply
because they always get out of the plane that way...

-John

I think you will find that this is an aeronautical myth. I have heard this
story as many others will have and it is often used as a reason not to get
out of your glider on the ground without the parachute. I have never seen
a proper account of any accident where it actually happened.

The square canopy v round canopy has been discussed on here before. As far
as I am aware, certainly in the UK, all emergency chutes are round canopy
for the very good reason that they open more reliable, faster opening and
pack into a smaller container. A sport chute is a completely different
design and if sport parachutists carry a reserve it is round canopy.