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#11
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in news:BkVqTUEmtFpHFwc0
@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk: In message , writes See: http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei...r_Next_Generat ion_Harpoon_Block_III_Missile_999.html How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? For as long as Harpoon keeps doing the job. You hit tradeoff territory on missile speed: flying faster means you can't come in so low, increases your radar and thermal signature, and gets you some other drawbacks. My experience was that Foreign Military Sales (FMS) customers were the main drivers for Harpoon developments. scott s. .. |
#12
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile
eatfastnoodle wrote:
:On Feb 2, 2:24*am, Fred J. McCall wrote: : wrote: : : :See: : : : :http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei..._For_Next_Gene... : : : :How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before : :switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? : : : : This one seems to fall into the "if it works, don't **** with it" : category. : : What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than : what's already there and in the development plan? : : :F14/F15/F16/F18 certainly work, so why do we spend tens of billions of :dollars on F22/F35? Why not just buy newer upgraded version of Eagle :and Falcon? Cause the enemies aren't sitting still, what works today :might not work tomorrow, you must plan for the future. : I'll simply note you dodge the question. Let me ask again. What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than what's already there and in the development plan? As for the aircraft you mention, we knew what new requirements we had (supercruise, stealth, improved maintenance rates, etc). So what do you want to add to Harpoon that isn't already in the roadmap? -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#13
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile
"scott s." wrote:
:"Paul J. Adam" wrote in news:BkVqTUEmtFpHFwc0 : : : In message : , : writes :See: : :http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei...r_Next_Generat :ion_Harpoon_Block_III_Missile_999.html : :How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before :switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? : : For as long as Harpoon keeps doing the job. You hit tradeoff territory : on missile speed: flying faster means you can't come in so low, : increases your radar and thermal signature, and gets you some other : drawbacks. : :My experience was that Foreign Military Sales (FMS) customers were :the main drivers for Harpoon developments. : Really? I don't suppose you could demonstrate this by telling us which FMS customers drove which developments? -- "The odds get even - You blame the game. The odds get even - The stakes are the same. You bet your life." -- "You Bet Your Life", Rush |
#14
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block IIIMissile
On Feb 2, 2:11*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
eatfastnoodle wrote: :On Feb 2, 2:24*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:: wrote: : : :See: : : : :http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei..._For_Next_Gene.... : : : :How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before : :switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? : : : : This one seems to fall into the "if it works, don't **** with it" : category. : : What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than : what's already there and in the development plan? : : :F14/F15/F16/F18 certainly work, so why do we spend tens of billions of :dollars on F22/F35? Why not just buy newer upgraded version of Eagle :and Falcon? Cause the enemies aren't sitting still, what works today :might not work tomorrow, you must plan for the future. : I'll simply note you dodge the question. Let me ask again. *What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than what's already there and in the development plan? As for the aircraft you mention, we knew what new requirements we had (supercruise, stealth, improved maintenance rates, etc). So what do you want to add to Harpoon that isn't already in the roadmap? -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the *truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson Supersonic speed is a good capability addition. Russians are selling supersonic anti-ship missiles to anybody willing to pay, investing in new missiles at least can help fending off Russian competition on the international arms export market. |
#15
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile
Fred J. McCall wrote in
: "scott s." wrote: : :My experience was that Foreign Military Sales (FMS) customers were :the main drivers for Harpoon developments. : Really? I don't suppose you could demonstrate this by telling us which FMS customers drove which developments? Sorry, but I don't think I want to go there. scott s. .. |
#16
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile
eatfastnoodle wrote:
:On Feb 2, 2:11*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote: : eatfastnoodle wrote: : : :On Feb 2, 2:24*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:: wrote: : : : : : :See: : : : : : :http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei..._For_Next_Gene... : : : : : :How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before : : :switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? : : : : : : : This one seems to fall into the "if it works, don't **** with it" : : category. : : : : What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than : : what's already there and in the development plan? : : : : : :F14/F15/F16/F18 certainly work, so why do we spend tens of billions of : :dollars on F22/F35? Why not just buy newer upgraded version of Eagle : :and Falcon? Cause the enemies aren't sitting still, what works today : :might not work tomorrow, you must plan for the future. : : : : I'll simply note you dodge the question. : : Let me ask again. *What do you want a newer weapon to do that would : work better than what's already there and in the development plan? : : As for the aircraft you mention, we knew what new requirements we had : (supercruise, stealth, improved maintenance rates, etc). : : So what do you want to add to Harpoon that isn't already in the : roadmap? : : -- : "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the : *truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." : * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson : :Supersonic speed is a good capability addition. : Why? What does it get you? The missile is already 20x faster than what you're shooting it at. Capability isn't free. If you want a supersonic anti-ship missile, it has to be bigger (which means you can carry fewer of them), fly higher (to escape reflections of its own shockwave from the surface), etc. : :Russians are selling :supersonic anti-ship missiles to anybody willing to pay, investing in :new missiles at least can help fending off Russian competition on the :international arms export market. : You don't make sales by copying them. You make sales by having more capable kit. What about "supersonic speed" is worth the costs of adding it (in both money and traded off capabilities)? -- "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw |
#17
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile
"scott s." wrote:
:Fred J. McCall wrote in : : : "scott s." wrote: : :: ::My experience was that Foreign Military Sales (FMS) customers were ::the main drivers for Harpoon developments. :: : : Really? I don't suppose you could demonstrate this by telling us : which FMS customers drove which developments? : : :Sorry, but I don't think I want to go there. : Then I don't believe it. I ask the question because MY experience is that FMS customers want the kit that is currently being used by US forces. They seldom pay for their own special developments of new capability. [When they do it is usually as a direct sale and not FMS.] -- "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute." -- Charles Pinckney |
#18
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block III Missile
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:11:39 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote: eatfastnoodle wrote: :On Feb 2, 2:24*am, Fred J. McCall wrote: : wrote: : : :See: : : : :http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei..._For_Next_Gene... : : : :How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before : :switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? : : : : This one seems to fall into the "if it works, don't **** with it" : category. : : What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than : what's already there and in the development plan? : : :F14/F15/F16/F18 certainly work, so why do we spend tens of billions of :dollars on F22/F35? Why not just buy newer upgraded version of Eagle :and Falcon? Cause the enemies aren't sitting still, what works today :might not work tomorrow, you must plan for the future. : I'll simply note you dodge the question. Let me ask again. What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than what's already there and in the development plan? As for the aircraft you mention, we knew what new requirements we had (supercruise, stealth, improved maintenance rates, etc). So what do you want to add to Harpoon that isn't already in the roadmap? I thought that the drive for the last few years had been to be able to deal with numbers of smaller targets and that the surface-air weapons have been modified in response. The USN seems to be responding to needs which does not surprise me all that much. Peter Skelton |
#19
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block IIIMissile
Fred J. McCall wrote:
Kerryn Offord wrote: :Fred J. McCall wrote: : wrote: : : :See: : : : :http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei...ssile_999.html : : : :How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before : :switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? : : : : This one seems to fall into the "if it works, don't **** with it" : category. : : What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than : what's already there and in the development plan? : : :I thought you said you worked for a military contractor? : I do, but what does that have to do with anything? A military contractor questioning the value of the government investing untold millions to develop a totally new weapons system to do the job that the existing system already does more than adequately... |
#20
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Boeing Awarded Contract For Next-Generation Harpoon Block IIIMissile
Fred J. McCall ha scritto:
eatfastnoodle wrote: :On Feb 2, 2:11 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote: : eatfastnoodle wrote: : : :On Feb 2, 2:24 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:: wrote: : : : : : :See: : : : : : :http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Boei..._For_Next_Gene... : : : : : :How much longer will the Navy keep upgrading Harpoon before : : :switching to a newer, possibly supersonic, weapon? : : : : : : : This one seems to fall into the "if it works, don't **** with it" : : category. : : : : What do you want a newer weapon to do that would work better than : : what's already there and in the development plan? : : : : : :F14/F15/F16/F18 certainly work, so why do we spend tens of billions of : :dollars on F22/F35? Why not just buy newer upgraded version of Eagle : :and Falcon? Cause the enemies aren't sitting still, what works today : :might not work tomorrow, you must plan for the future. : : : : I'll simply note you dodge the question. : : Let me ask again. What do you want a newer weapon to do that would : work better than what's already there and in the development plan? : : As for the aircraft you mention, we knew what new requirements we had : (supercruise, stealth, improved maintenance rates, etc). : : So what do you want to add to Harpoon that isn't already in the : roadmap? : : -- : "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the : truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." : -- Thomas Jefferson : :Supersonic speed is a good capability addition. : Why? What does it get you? The missile is already 20x faster than what you're shooting it at. Capability isn't free. If you want a supersonic anti-ship missile, it has to be bigger (which means you can carry fewer of them), fly higher (to escape reflections of its own shockwave from the surface), etc. As I understand, very high speed in ASuW missiles is conceived as counter-measure against CIWS systems, on the basis of reducing the available reaction time. Indeed there are easily quantifiable training & elevating times of CIWS mounts and (with a bit of intelligence) time needed for VLS missiles to get the interception course from the straight-up course. Best regards from Italy, Dott. Piergiorgio. |
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