Iran's nuclear program

"W. D. Allen Sr." wrote in message ...
"...Proof:
UN clears Iran nuclear facility...."

Is that the same UN that got rich on kickbacks from Saddam Hussein while
closing their eyes to his starving to death Iraqi children during the 1990s?


Oh, so the starving of IRaqi children was the UNs' fault and not the
fault of the USA??

LOL!!! Talk about scapegoating!

FYI, remember what Madame Albright had to say about it:

Lesley Stahl: We have heard that a half million children have died. I
mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is
the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard
choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)




Is that the same UN that has it's blue beret troops watch while black
Africans slaughter other black Africans?

It couldn't be that UN could it?

WDA

end



--


----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by MailFrontier Desktop
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com

"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...
Among the smoke-and-mirror and fear-mongering innuendo, these are some
facts about Iran's nuclear program that aren't being mentioned:

1- The Bushehr reactor-which was started under the Shah with US
support-is not a weapons proliferation threat since it is a ligh****er
reactor which is under IAEA safeguard. Even the IAEA itself admits
that much.

Proof:
UN clears Iran nuclear facility
The head of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency has said
Russia's nuclear co-operation with Iran is no longer a matter of
concern.
(SOURCE: BBC Online Tuesday, 29 June, 2004)


2- According to Article 4 of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has an
"INALIENABLE RIGHT" to possess nuclear technology. Several other
nations use the same technology too, such as Brazil and Holland and
Japan. Note how the articles conflate a nuclear "weapons" program with
a "nuclear program"

3- Iran needs nuclear energy despite possessing extensive oil and gas
because of rising domestic consumption and the reliance on the sale
oil and gas for earning hard currency. In fact the Stanford Research
Institute advised the Shah's government that Iran could not rely on
oil and gas for energy way back in the mid 1970's. Other nations which
have extensive oil and gas resources also have nuclear energy - such
as Russia and the USA. Iran has also been experimenting with
geothermal energy and wind-turbines, as well as building its largest
hydroengery dam.

4- There is in fact no evidence of an actual nuclear WEAPONS program
in Iran, as admitted by the IAEA itself - there is only the INFERENCE
that Iran COULD ONE DAY POSSIBLY use the legitimate technology to
build a weapon of it desires to do so. Needless to say, ANY TECHNOLOGY
"could" be used to make nukes, and so could any country.

Proof:
"IAEA: No evidence of Iran nukes
VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- The U.N. nuclear watchdog agency has found "no
evidence" Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons...
SOURCE: AP Monday, November 10, 2003

" 'The United States has no concrete evidence of a nuclear-weapons
program,' Albright told me. 'It's just an inference. There's no
smoking gun.' "
SOURCE: New Yorker by SEYMOUR M. HERSH Issue of 2004-06-28


5- The bombing of Iraq's Osirak reactor did not signficantly affect
Iraq's nuclear program, since the centrifuge sites were not bombed. If
anything it encouraged them to speed up the process. But in any case,
Iran has signed the Additional Protocol which permits IAEA inspections
anywhere-anytime, and Iraq had not.

6- Attacking Iran's nuclear installations will prove once and for all
to the people of Iran the necessity of obtaining nuclear weapons as a
deterrence.

7- Currently, Iran has signed the Nonproliferation Treaty and its
nuclear installations are all under IAEA safeguards - unlike North
Korea.

8- If Iran is attacked, Iran will withdraw from the Non-Proliferation
Treaty (as it is legally do pursuant to Article X) and will start
working on a nuclear weapons program in earnest. Centrifuge sites will
pop up like mushrooms all over the country - too many to be bombed -
and the IAEA inspectors will not be around to check them. Within 6
mos, the first nuclear test will occur, and within a year Iran's
missiles will be armed with nuclear warheads

9- The people of Iran will rally to support their government if Iran
is attacked, as their nationalism is stirred by such an act. Iran's
decision to develop nuclear deterrence will occur with the full
support of the people of the government too, so changing governments
will not change the decision to build nukes.

10- There are already many Iranians who believe that Iran should
withdraw from the NonProliferation Treaty since the US has failed to
abide by ITS obligations under the same treaty, and Iran is surrounded
by nuclear-armed or nuclear-capable states that threaten Iran's
security.

So yes, by all means, go ahead and bomb Iran and see what happens.

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:30:46 -0700, W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

Is that the same UN that got rich on kickbacks from Saddam Hussein while
closing their eyes to his starving to death Iraqi children during the 1990s?


Truth be known, the US facilitated/manipulated the UN into that with
sanctions on evertying. When it became clear that the Saddam regime was
not going to collapse as a result of sanctions, the bogus WMD issue came
along. The rest as they say is history.


Iran needs nuclear energy despite possessing extensive oil and gas

I doubt the above statement is true. While countries do diversify their
energy sources, it makes little economic sense for an oil & gas abundant
nation to invest in expensive nuclear energy production. Nuclear energy
production makes the best economic sense for countries with few fossil
fuel reserves and little hydroelectric potential. e.g. US, France, Germany,
Japan, India, China. They make no sense for countries like Iraq, Iran,
Saudi Arabia, Venesuela... even Russia to a great extent if climatic
factors are excluded.

The implications become more obvious when seen against the backdrop of
Iran's plans to master the nuclear fuel cycle from mining the ore to its
reprocessing.

Thelasian wrote:
Stop SPAM wrote in message ...
Thelasian wrote:
Among the smoke-and-mirror and fear-mongering innuendo, these are some
facts about Iran's nuclear program that aren't being mentioned
...snipped...
How about these new facts - sounds awfully suspiciously like Iran is
working on becoming a nuclear power, and doesn't care who - including
"Old Europe" - knows, or what UN sanctions it receives. Where have we
heard this before?
Actually, these are not "new facts" at all. And Iran is indeed working
on becoming a "nuclear power" - a civilian nuclear power. That's what
the NPT says is an "inalienable right" of countries to do.
Oh, and these facts are coming from "Old Europe", not the US. Are you
now accusing 'Old Europe' of "smoke-and mirror and fear-mongering"? Gee,
it's beginning to sound like there's multilateral support against Iran.
Again/ I am not sure what new facts you're referring to. According to
the article, Iran has demanded that Europeans provide Iran with
nuclear technology and stop impediments to Iran's acquisition of same.
That's exactly what the NPT requires of the signatory nations.

Thelasian -

I suggest you read the article I posted, which said, amungst other things:

The Iranian list, presented during talks in Paris, includes demands that
the three European powers:
- Support Iran's insistence its nuclear program have access to "advanced
technology, including those with dual use," which is equipment and
know-how that has both peaceful and weapons applications.
- "Remove impediments" — sales restrictions imposed by nuclear supplier
nations — preventing Iran access to such technology.

If the peace-loving people of Iran are only interested in civilian
nuclear power, they would not be asking for dual use technologies, nor
would the rest of the world (starting with France and Germany) be concerned:

But diplomats said Iran's demands undermine the effort by France,
Germany and Britain to avoid a confrontation. They had hoped to
persuade Tehran to give up technology that can produce nuclear arms,
but now are closer to the Bush administration's view that Iran should
be referred to the U.N. Security Council for violating the Nuclear
Nonproliferation Treaty, the diplomats said.

Willing to bet your life on it? Iran has a highly irresponsible government
with great potential for misusing nuclear weapons if they were to obtain
them. Given their large natural

Right,Unlike US,which has a highly responsible government that considers using
nuclear weapons only aganist non-nuclear powers,iresponsible Iranians might
consider using them aganist other nuclear powers.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Willing to bet your life on it? Iran has a highly irresponsible
government
with great potential for misusing nuclear weapons if they were to obtain
them. Given their large natural

Right,Unlike US,which has a highly responsible government that considers
using
nuclear weapons only aganist non-nuclear powers,iresponsible Iranians
might
consider using them aganist other nuclear powers.

I pity anyone who tries to pretend there is some equivalence between the
governments of Iran and the United States. If you start really believe
that, you are so far behind the curve as to make meaningful discussion
impossible.

Jarg

"Jarg" wrote in message om...
"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...

"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...
Among the smoke-and-mirror and fear-mongering innuendo, these are some
facts about Iran's nuclear program that aren't being mentioned:

1- The Bushehr reactor-which was started under the Shah with US
support-is not a weapons proliferation threat since it is a ligh****er
reactor which is under IAEA safeguard. Even the IAEA itself admits
that much.


There is a push by the same neocons that gave us the invasion of Iraq on
false pretexts to invade Iran. Their henchmen eg Charles Krauthammer, is
already pushing for it.


Not a bad idea, they are one of the worst governments left on the planet!


Except for say Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Israel, and lots of other
US-allied repressive racist tyrannies....



There will be a concerted propaganda-hype campaigne to do this over the
next
few years and there is not doubt that it will have a very high chance of
succeding.


Gotta hope so.


Oil, the powerfull US zionist lobby and general blow back from middle
eastern resentment against the US will all aligne.




Wow, this post has it all - neocons, henchmen, zionists. Makes me wonder
if they have propoganda-bots!

Jarg

"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...

Not a bad idea, they are one of the worst governments left on the
planet!


Except for say Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Israel, and lots of other
US-allied repressive racist tyrannies....


First, I said one of the worst.. Second, the government of Israel, though
not without flaws, is orders of magnitude better than that of Iran, as
demonstrated by the relative freedom and prosperity its citizens enjoy. As
for Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan, well you had to really dig into the muck to
find comparable nations didn't you!? And I wasn't aware these other
countries you mention are sponsoring and harboring terrorists.

Jarg

"Jarg" wrote in message om...
"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...

Not a bad idea, they are one of the worst governments left on the
planet!


Except for say Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Israel, and lots of other
US-allied repressive racist tyrannies....


First, I said one of the worst.. Second, the government of Israel, though
not without flaws, is orders of magnitude better than that of Iran,


Yes, and I am sure the 6 million Palestinians who were driven out of
their homes and refused their rights under the Geneva Convention would
totally agree.


demonstrated by the relative freedom and prosperity its citizens enjoy.

You mean JEWISH citizens. Even Arab citizens of Israel are widely
discriminated against in the JEWISH homeland.

for Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan, well you had to really dig into the muck to
find comparable nations didn't you!?


Not really. In fact I could point out the fact that up to a few years
ago that the US of A was conducting human nuclear radition experiments
on unsuspecting psychiatric patients without their knowledge or
approval, and that our military was training torturers and assassins
at the School of Americas.

Talk about "supporting terrorism"!!!

(Thelasian) wrote in
m:

"Jarg" wrote in message
om...
"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...

Not a bad idea, they are one of the worst governments left on the
planet!


Except for say Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Israel, and lots of other
US-allied repressive racist tyrannies....


First, I said one of the worst.. Second, the government of Israel,
though not without flaws, is orders of magnitude better than that of
Iran,


Yes, and I am sure the 6 million Palestinians who were driven out of
their homes and refused their rights under the Geneva Convention would
totally agree.

Uh,most of them left voluntarily,under advice from their Grand Mufti.

ISTR that there were not even 6 million original 'refugees' resulting from
the 1948 war.I believe you are counting those born in other countries
afterwards.Rather dishonest,IMO.



demonstrated by the relative freedom and prosperity its citizens
enjoy.

You mean JEWISH citizens. Even Arab citizens of Israel are widely
discriminated against in the JEWISH homeland.

Yeah,what ARAB country allows Jews to be in their legislature?
Israel has two "Palestinian" members in the Knesset.
Arabs in Israel are FAR freer and more prosperous than in any of the
neighboring Arab countries,supposedly their friends and supporters.
They expect Jews to allow them to live in Israel(which Israel does),but
will not let Jews live in Arab countries.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
(Thelasian) wrote in
m:

"Jarg" wrote in message
om...
"Thelasian" wrote in message
m...

Not a bad idea, they are one of the worst governments left on the
planet!


Except for say Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Israel, and lots of other
US-allied repressive racist tyrannies....


First, I said one of the worst.. Second, the government of Israel,
though not without flaws, is orders of magnitude better than that of
Iran,


Yes, and I am sure the 6 million Palestinians who were driven out of
their homes and refused their rights under the Geneva Convention would
totally agree.

Uh,most of them left voluntarily,under advice from their Grand Mufti.

ISTR that there were not even 6 million original 'refugees' resulting from
the 1948 war.I believe you are counting those born in other countries
afterwards.Rather dishonest,IMO.


That number presumably also includes the ones driven out of Jordan
when King Hussein decided he couldnt accept the terrorist attacks
being made by them.

Keith




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---