Potential Class B Bust

Charlie45 wrote:
So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


Does this so-called aviation attorney actually have an aviation
practice? This advice is ludircous for a number of reasons.

1. The ASRS reports, barring a few exceptions like accidents
occurring, can NOT be used for enforcement procedures.

2. The FAA won't even find out you've filed one unless you
tell them.

3. I'm not sure why you are admitting more if you wait until
the FAA comes after you than if you file now...

and FINALLY:

Persuant to AC00-46D, you only have 10 days from the date of the
incident to file the report in order to EVER use it as your FAA
"get out of jail free" card.

Are you sure he didn't mean for you to file and not TELL the
FAA you had filed one until they start the enforcement?

"Charlie45" wrote in message
...

So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


--
Charlie45

What everybody else said. Your attorney is giving horrible advice and
obviously knows absolutely nothing about the NASA reports.

[/color]
Does this so-called aviation attorney actually have an aviation
practice? This advice is ludircous for a number of reasons.

1. The ASRS reports, barring a few exceptions like accidents
occurring, can NOT be used for enforcement procedures.

2. The FAA won't even find out you've filed one unless you
tell them.

3. I'm not sure why you are admitting more if you wait until
the FAA comes after you than if you file now...

and FINALLY:

Persuant to AC00-46D, you only have 10 days from the date of the
incident to file the report in order to EVER use it as your FAA
"get out of jail free" card.

Are you sure he didn't mean for you to file and not TELL the
FAA you had filed one until they start the enforcement?[/quote]


I spoke with another Attorney in the meantime and he said that I should promptly file the NASA report. He also said that the FAA would not find about the filing unless it was something serious (e.g. aircraft accident).

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I think I would tend to agree with the others in the NG regarding the
ASRS form and get a second opinion, but quickly. Here is the text
directly from AC 00-46D, paragraph 9:

"c. The filing of a report with NASA concerning an incident or
occurrence involving a violation of
49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, or the FAR is considered by FAA to be indicative
of a constructive attitude.
Such an attitude will tend to prevent Mure violations. Accordingly,
although a tiding of violation
may be made, neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be
imposed if
(1) the violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;.
(2) the violation did not involve a criminal offense,& accident, or
action under 49 U.S.C.
Section 44709 which discloses a lack of qualification or competency,
which is wholly excluded
from this policy;
(3) the person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action to
have committed a
violation of 49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, or any regulation promulgated there
for a period of 5 years
prior to the date of occurrence; and
(4) the person proves that, within 10 days after the violation, he or
she completed and
delivered or mailed a written report of the incident or occurrence to
NASA under ASRS. See
paragraphs SC and 7b.
N&e: Paragraph 9 does not apply to air traffk controllers. Provisions
concerning air traffic
controllers involved in incidents reported under ASRS are addressed in
FAA Order 7210.3.G, Facility
Operations and Administration."

Charlie45 wrote:
So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


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On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:08:37 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote:


"Charlie45" wrote in message
.. .

So I spoke with an aviation attorney. He recommended that I hold off on
filing the NASA safety report at the moment. Given the situation and
that I really don't believe that I violated class Bravo it would not be
prudent to file the form until I receive the letter from the FAA. The
thought behind this is that I would be admitting to the violation if I
were to file the safety report. I will wait until I have the letter and
see what happens from there...


--
Charlie45

What everybody else said. Your attorney is giving horrible advice and
obviously knows absolutely nothing about the NASA reports.

He is however, advising very much in standard attorney-style. Which is
- to admit nothing. to apologize to nobody.

They are a baleful influence on business, sports and public life in
general, no doubt.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

Are you sure he didn't mean for you to file and not TELL the
FAA you had filed one until they start the enforcement?

I would think that you shouldn't tell them until they *finish* the
enforcement proceedings. After all, they might decide they can't prove you
did anything wrong (because of altimeter inaccuracy), or they might not
impose a penalty, and so on.

I've always heard that you should file the report, then let whatever happens
happen, and *finally*, if they say that they want to pull your certificate
or fine you, *then* you pull out your ASRS receipt and say "Sorry, I'm off
the hook."

I would think, by the way, that your instructor should file a separate ASRS
report.