Nothing good about Ethanol

On 2006-07-03, Dave Stadt wrote:
What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make
SUV drivers look like fuel misers.

Don't think so. SUVs have us outnumbered by what, several tens of thousands
to one?

This is of course how I personally rationalise my use of planes that get
half the gas mileage of a Hummer!

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

On 2006-07-02, wrote:
It is now almost warm enough in England *AGAIN* to produce decent wine.

A little more waming and England will be back to the climate of 2000
years ago and once again English wine will be available in the civilized
world.

Interesting point of note: I have two Washingtonia Filifera (California
fan palms) in my back yard. Only little ones at the moment. I went and did
my medical on Friday. My AME has a 20 foot California fan palm in
his front garden.

I live further north than the entire lower 48 states of the Continental
US!

Our small mountain, Snaefell, means Snow Mountain. It seldom gets snow
on it (and this isn't recent: cabbage trees (known as Manx Palms here)
have been endemic for at least a couple of hundred years, and if
Snaefell really was snowy, then it'd be too cold for the cabbage trees
which are natives of New Zealand, and not as hardy as native trees).

The point? The climate of the British Isles is less about the average
global temperature, but more about the influence of the Gulf Stream. The
Irish Sea in particular is relatively warm, and that's why despite me
living further north than the entire lower 48, I have to scrape ice off
my car windscreen about as often as I did when living in Houston, Texas
- i.e. about twice a year. If the warm ocean currents go elsewhere, the
British Isles could become a very cold place just as easily, and we
could be opening a ski resort on Snaefell rather than growing tropical
plants!

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:

snip

Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a
multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The

Bingo, we have a winner!

An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word.

I knew you could do it.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-07-01, Matt Barrow wrote:
1) What percentage of annual CO2 production is human caused and what
portion
is natural?

Human production is around 3% of annual planetary CO2 production.

2) What are the short-term and long-term effect of CO2 concentrations?

Ice core records going back hundreds of thousands of years plus other
evidence show that global temperature closely correlates with CO2
levels.

NOTE: The warming PRECEDES the CO2 increases by about 800 years.


What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make
SUV drivers look like fuel misers.

"Everyone" is in a panic and that will redound to pilots.

What's worse, the questions being asked as wrong if not backasswards.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
. net...

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-07-01, Matt Barrow wrote:
1) What percentage of annual CO2 production is human caused and what
portion
is natural?

Human production is around 3% of annual planetary CO2 production.

2) What are the short-term and long-term effect of CO2 concentrations?

Ice core records going back hundreds of thousands of years plus other
evidence show that global temperature closely correlates with CO2
levels.

What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make
SUV drivers look like fuel misers.

Don't think so. SUVs have us outnumbered by what, several tens of
thousands to one?

In that case, we need to use guerilla tactics.

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-07-03, Dave Stadt wrote:
What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make
SUV drivers look like fuel misers.

Don't think so. SUVs have us outnumbered by what, several tens of
thousands
to one?

This is of course how I personally rationalise my use of planes that get
half the gas mileage of a Hummer!

I stopped rationalizing these things when I actually started answering
myself.

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-07-01, Matt Barrow wrote:
1) What percentage of annual CO2 production is human caused and what
portion
is natural?

Human production is around 3% of annual planetary CO2 production.

Very good!!

Follow-up: What is the most common greeenhouse gas and what is the breakdown
on human vs. natural sources?


2) What are the short-term and long-term effect of CO2 concentrations?

Ice core records going back hundreds of thousands of years plus other
evidence show that global temperature closely correlates with CO2
levels.

Yes, with a rather large delay; IOW, warming CAUSES CO2.

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:

snip

Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a
multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The

Bingo, we have a winner!

An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word.

I knew you could do it.

Don't forget to shut the door behind you as you run away!

The following question and points remain unanswered:

Where does that leave the rest of us? [wrt reconstructions of past
climate]

Ancient literature.

Why not scientific evidence?

Why not the records from the people that were alive at the time?

Why don't you provide them?

"It is not exactly clear why the number of vineyards declined subsequently.
Some have put it down to an adverse change in the weather which made an
uncertain enterprise even more problematic. Others have linked it with the
dissolution of the monasteries by Henry VIII. Both these factors may have
had some part to play but in all probability the decline was gradual (over
several centuries) and for more complex reasons. "
http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#domesday

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png

England was a big wine producer during the Roman period and for a while
after the Romans.

England became too cold for wine production about a millenium ago.

Uh, that is supposed to have been the Medieval Warm Period. You have a
poor
grasp of the facts.

You have a poor grasp of reading graphs.

According to your graph refenced above (depending on who's data your use),
the "little ice age" started about a millenium ago.

One thousand years ago was about the peak of the MWP. I think you are the
one having trouble reading that graph. The LIA is generally considered to
have started around 1400 though it is not well synchronzed globally.

Looking at the same source for a period of 450 thousand years, it looks
like we are currently a little on the cool side.

From that graph I would be more worried about global cooling.

The Milankovitch cycles that controled that saw-tooth pattern would have us
very gradually cooling, though the best estimates say we would not be in an
iceage for another 30-50Kyrs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:I...emperature.png

It is now almost warm enough in England *AGAIN* to produce decent wine.

In specific answer to the "grapes used to grow in England" bit, I like to
point people he

http://www.english-wine.com/index.html

I'm well aware England is again growing grapes and making wine.

I'm also well aware from writting of the times that England grew a
lot of grapes during Roman times and up to about the beginning of the
little ice age, at which time production just about ceased.

"It is said that Julius Caesar brought the vine to England. Nice though that
story is, some scholars think it apocryphal - wine was certainly brought to
Britain by the Romans, but it is less certain whether the vine was grown
here, or if it was, whether it was in sufficent quantity to satisfy the
local requirement for wine or just as an ornament to remind Romans of home
and wealthy Romano-Britons of the source of their civilisation and
prosperity."
http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#roman

It is only in recent time (in terms of centuries) that it has been
warm enough to start producing in quantity again.

"The period from the end of the First World War to shortly after the end of
the Second World War may well be the only time in two millennia that vines
to make wine on a substantial scale were not grown in England or Wales.
Doubtless, during that time, there were some vines being grown on a garden
scale by amateur growers, but for more than 25 years there was a total
cessation of viticulture and winemaking on a commercial basis. "
http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#20thcentury

Perhaps you should close your web browser, turn off the computer,
and read a few good books, preferably in the original Latin.

Perhaps you should provide some more substance and less bluster.


--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")

In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:
wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:

snip

Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a
multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The

Bingo, we have a winner!

An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word.

I knew you could do it.

Don't forget to shut the door behind you as you run away!

Bingo, yet another ad hominem, with the implication I am a coward incapable
of facing The Truth!

What makes you think you are worth bothering to respond to any further
now that you've shown your true colors?

snip remaining

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:
wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:

snip

Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a
multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The

Bingo, we have a winner!

An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word.

I knew you could do it.

Don't forget to shut the door behind you as you run away!

Bingo, yet another ad hominem, with the implication I am a coward
incapable
of facing The Truth!

Ad hominem is when I attempt to refute your argument by attacking you in a
personal way. Since you offered no argument whatsoever, my empirical
observation of your cowardice can not be interpreted as any kind of
refutation, thus not ad hominem. It is not even an insult as it is a
statement of fact: I presented detailed, substantiated and logical
discussion and you snipped it all, made up a transparent excuse, insulted me
and ran away from the discussion.

Your unsupported assertion that the MWP was globally warmer than today does
not match the available evidence. Your anecdote about Romans, England and
wine is apparently a myth and does not logically imply anything about global
climate at that time nor today's climate change.

There is no shame in being wrong, being wilfully ignorant on the other hand
is inexcusable.

--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")

[Repost in case you have a change of heart]
The following question and points remain unanswered:

Where does that leave the rest of us? [wrt reconstructions of past
climate]

Ancient literature.

Why not scientific evidence?

Why not the records from the people that were alive at the time?

Why don't you provide them?

"It is not exactly clear why the number of vineyards declined subsequently.
Some have put it down to an adverse change in the weather which made an
uncertain enterprise even more problematic. Others have linked it with the
dissolution of the monasteries by Henry VIII. Both these factors may have
had some part to play but in all probability the decline was gradual (over
several centuries) and for more complex reasons. "
http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#domesday

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png

England was a big wine producer during the Roman period and for a while
after the Romans.

England became too cold for wine production about a millenium ago.

Uh, that is supposed to have been the Medieval Warm Period. You have a
poor
grasp of the facts.

You have a poor grasp of reading graphs.

According to your graph refenced above (depending on who's data your use),
the "little ice age" started about a millenium ago.

One thousand years ago was about the peak of the MWP. I think you are the
one having trouble reading that graph. The LIA is generally considered to
have started around 1400 though it is not well synchronzed globally.

Looking at the same source for a period of 450 thousand years, it looks
like we are currently a little on the cool side.

From that graph I would be more worried about global cooling.

The Milankovitch cycles that controled that saw-tooth pattern would have us
very gradually cooling, though the best estimates say we would not be in an
iceage for another 30-50Kyrs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:I...emperature.png

It is now almost warm enough in England *AGAIN* to produce decent wine.

In specific answer to the "grapes used to grow in England" bit, I like to
point people he

http://www.english-wine.com/index.html

I'm well aware England is again growing grapes and making wine.

I'm also well aware from writting of the times that England grew a
lot of grapes during Roman times and up to about the beginning of the
little ice age, at which time production just about ceased.

"It is said that Julius Caesar brought the vine to England. Nice though that
story is, some scholars think it apocryphal - wine was certainly brought to
Britain by the Romans, but it is less certain whether the vine was grown
here, or if it was, whether it was in sufficent quantity to satisfy the
local requirement for wine or just as an ornament to remind Romans of home
and wealthy Romano-Britons of the source of their civilisation and
prosperity."
http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#roman

It is only in recent time (in terms of centuries) that it has been
warm enough to start producing in quantity again.

"The period from the end of the First World War to shortly after the end of
the Second World War may well be the only time in two millennia that vines
to make wine on a substantial scale were not grown in England or Wales.
Doubtless, during that time, there were some vines being grown on a garden
scale by amateur growers, but for more than 25 years there was a total
cessation of viticulture and winemaking on a commercial basis. "
http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#20thcentury

Perhaps you should close your web browser, turn off the computer,
and read a few good books, preferably in the original Latin.

Perhaps you should provide some more substance and less bluster.