Safety: Planes vs Bikes

Charles Talleyrand wrote:
I fly a small airplane (a Cessna 150) that is well maintained. I fly
over forests in good weather and typically during the day. My biggest
fear is the engine quits over the forest and I have no place to make a
deadstick landing except the tops of large trees.

I drive a moderate motorcycle (a Honda Nighthawk 750) at moderate
speeds through my small town and through the surrounding forests. My
biggest fears are either that I will slide on a patch of dirt on the
road and crash or someone will hit me with their car through
inattention.

I've been asked several times which of these things is more dangerous.
Can anyone provide some statistics on this?

-Thanks
-Charles Talleyrand

I called a friend who is in the insurance biz, and he said that he
doesn't know of any company that asks about street riding, though most
if not all ask about motorcycle racing - actually, any type or motor
racing.

He said that the only common questions regarding flying have to do with
piloting a private plane, and of course, jumping out of a plane.

Somebody mentioned that SCUBA diving is listed? Odd... That's actually
a very safe sport activity, unless you go into a cave. Then you turn
one of the safest activities into one of the most dangerous.

"Charles Talleyrand" wrote in
ups.com:

I fly a small airplane (a Cessna 150) that is well maintained. I fly
over forests in good weather and typically during the day. My biggest
fear is the engine quits over the forest and I have no place to make a
deadstick landing except the tops of large trees.

I drive a moderate motorcycle (a Honda Nighthawk 750) at moderate
speeds through my small town and through the surrounding forests. My
biggest fears are either that I will slide on a patch of dirt on the
road and crash or someone will hit me with their car through
inattention.

I've been asked several times which of these things is more dangerous.
Can anyone provide some statistics on this?

-Thanks
-Charles Talleyrand


Sometimes I walk across a street. My biggest fear is either that I will trip
and crack my head on the asphalt, or that I will be mowed over by an
innatentive driver of a car or moderate motorcycle.

Other times I move my bowels. My biggest fear is that if I strain too hard, I
will suffer a heart attack and die, much like famed musician Elvis Presley.

Can you tell me which activity is more dangerous? My insurance forms don't
seem to care how frequently I cross streets (even though I do live in New
York), nor how frequently I take dumps. Yet somehow, I believe I will extend
my lifespan by refraining from one or both of these activities.

Judah wrote:
"Charles Talleyrand" wrote in
ups.com:

I fly a small airplane (a Cessna 150) that is well maintained. I fly
over forests in good weather and typically during the day. My biggest
fear is the engine quits over the forest and I have no place to make a
deadstick landing except the tops of large trees.

I drive a moderate motorcycle (a Honda Nighthawk 750) at moderate
speeds through my small town and through the surrounding forests. My
biggest fears are either that I will slide on a patch of dirt on the
road and crash or someone will hit me with their car through
inattention.

I've been asked several times which of these things is more dangerous.
Can anyone provide some statistics on this?

-Thanks
-Charles Talleyrand


Sometimes I walk across a street. My biggest fear is either that I will trip
and crack my head on the asphalt, or that I will be mowed over by an
innatentive driver of a car or moderate motorcycle.

Other times I move my bowels. My biggest fear is that if I strain too hard, I
will suffer a heart attack and die, much like famed musician Elvis Presley.

Can you tell me which activity is more dangerous? My insurance forms don't
seem to care how frequently I cross streets (even though I do live in New
York), nor how frequently I take dumps. Yet somehow, I believe I will extend
my lifespan by refraining from one or both of these activities.


If you don't eat, you don't ****....... you don't ****, you die!

On 24 Aug 2006 16:52:30 -0700, "Charles Talleyrand"
wrote:
I've been asked several times which of these things is more dangerous.
Can anyone provide some statistics on this?

Personal experience is that I've broken more bones on motorcycles than
I have in aircraft... So far, 5 bones on motorcycles, only 2 in an
aircraft... Most of the motorcycle incidents required me to be carried
away from the accident... I walked / hobbled away from the aircraft
incidents... As a side note, in both the motorcycle and the aircraft
incidents, I was wearing a full coverage helmets that sustained quite
noticeable damage... The damage to the motorcycle incident helmets
were considerably more severe though...

Given the choice between landing a Cessna 150/152 in the top of some
trees and having another motorcycle incident like some of my previous
ones, I would probably choose the Cessna 150/152... The crash speed is
quite a bit slower than any of the motorcycle incidents that I have
had over the years...

Regardless though, the one thing that I have learned is that GRAVITY
SUCKS...

"Charles Talleyrand" wrote in message
ups.com...
I fly a small airplane (a Cessna 150) that is well maintained. I fly
over forests in good weather and typically during the day. My biggest
fear is the engine quits over the forest and I have no place to make a
deadstick landing except the tops of large trees.

I drive a moderate motorcycle (a Honda Nighthawk 750) at moderate
speeds through my small town and through the surrounding forests. My
biggest fears are either that I will slide on a patch of dirt on the
road and crash or someone will hit me with their car through
inattention.

I've been asked several times which of these things is more dangerous.
Can anyone provide some statistics on this?

What I have heard and believe myself is that the risk of death is similar
for both activities on average. Hazards are different. Private pilots tend
to do themselve in with their own mistakes. Riders get got by others a lot
more.

Charles Talleyrand wrote:
I fly a small airplane (a Cessna 150) that is well maintained. I fly
over forests in good weather and typically during the day. My biggest
fear is the engine quits over the forest and I have no place to make a
deadstick landing except the tops of large trees.

I drive a moderate motorcycle (a Honda Nighthawk 750) at moderate
speeds through my small town and through the surrounding forests. My
biggest fears are either that I will slide on a patch of dirt on the
road and crash or someone will hit me with their car through
inattention.

I've been asked several times which of these things is more dangerous.
Can anyone provide some statistics on this?

-Thanks
-Charles Talleyrand

From Recent Trends in Fatal Motorcycle Crashes:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...006/810606.pdf

There were 10 billion vehicle miles traveled on motorcycles in the US
(Table 5). There were 4,000 fatalities (page 10). Therefore there is
an average of one fatality per 2,500,000 miles driven on a motorcycle.

BTW, motorcycles registered in the US has gone from 3.6 million in 1990
to 6.4 million in 2003.

From the Nall Report at http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/05nall.pdf
There was 1.2 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours. (page 5)

Therefore if you assume the average motorcycle travels an average of 30
mph, the accident rates are equal. (2,500,000/(100,000/1.2))

Don Tuite wrote:
On 24 Aug 2006 16:52:30 -0700, "Charles Talleyrand"
wrote:

I fly a small airplane (a Cessna 150) that is well maintained. I fly
over forests in good weather and typically during the day. My biggest
fear is the engine quits over the forest and I have no place to make a
deadstick landing except the tops of large trees.

I drive a moderate motorcycle (a Honda Nighthawk 750) at moderate
speeds through my small town and through the surrounding forests. My
biggest fears are either that I will slide on a patch of dirt on the
road and crash or someone will hit me with their car through
inattention.

I've been asked several times which of these things is more dangerous.
Can anyone provide some statistics on this?

Per mile, per hour, per year? What kind of gear do you wear? We know
you do a BFR every other year; when was the last time you took the MSF
experienced rider course? How old are you?

Here's the NHTSA's "Recent Trends in Fatal Motorcycle Crashes: An
Update," from June of this year:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...006/810606.pdf

And here's the 2005 Nall Report on General Aviation accidents.:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/05nall.pdf

My guess is that personal factors even out and the risk for any one of
us is about the same.

And an awful lot of GA ;pilots are/have been bikers. I wish there
were statistics on how many.

Don

Excellent post. Much Thanks

-Charles Talleyrand

Motorcycling is safer than spelunking or sky diving, from what I remember
reading. The risks between flying and riding a motorcyle I'd imagine are
relatively equal. Per trip a airline airplane ride is much more dangerous
than riding a car but safer than a motorcycle. I'd imagine a private plane
is somewhat less safe, on average. They are less forgiving of mistakes.

Charles Talleyrand wrote:
I fly a small airplane (a Cessna 150) that is well maintained. I fly
over forests in good weather and typically during the day. My biggest
fear is the engine quits over the forest and I have no place to make a
deadstick landing except the tops of large trees.

Charles, I used to ride my motorcycle to the Elmdale Airpark in
Abilene, Texas many years ago, so I could make sport parachute jumps.
It was rather convenient, because my helmet, jumpsuit, boots, goggles,
gloves, etc., were interchangeable for both riding the bike and jumping
(and no, I didn't wear the parachutes to the DZ; I kept my Para-
Commander and my cheapo T-10 rig in a locker).

I also earned my PP/SEL and later became a cave diver (mostly in
Florida); I earned my living as a law enforcement officer most of the
time.

An insurance salesman offered the guys in my platoon life insurance
packages, and when I filled out the forms and listed the activities I
engaged in, the salesman just laughed and tore up the forms right in
front of me. He explained that sure, his company would be glad to take
the premiums, but it'd be theft because there was NO WAY they'd pay off
if my luck ran out.

I don't think that's changed much over the years.

YMMV, of course.

Happy landings, regardless!

Best,

James

BrianNZ wrote:
Peter R. wrote:
"vincent p. norris" wrote:

Half a century has passed since then, and I have never
again been asked if I fly, when taking out insurance.

Oh, they still ask.

I dread the day when insurance becomes compulsory.

Like in US or Japan?

--
HPT