Letter to the FAA

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:57:40 AM UTC-5, Karl Kunz wrote:
There are reports of "unexpected release" and "failure to release" for the Tost release as well, how do the two compare? Anything mechanical is prone to failure so to say the Schweizer is worse than any other release without some type of statistical analysis is kind of meaningless.

Isn't this a purview of the SSF? Burt Compton has responded to this thread and serves on its board. While he specifically stated he did not represent the SSF in this matter, perhaps you could request the Foundation look into the history of this problem to get those stats?
Mike

I, along with many others, agree with burt on this one walt. go through steve northcraft if you choose to pursue this further.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage. I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.


If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly

Walt,
You are not listening to the people you asked an opinion of.
The majority are asking you to not act on your proposed letter.
You must realize that the governments response is completely unpredictable,
Maybe they will ignore you, maybe they will conduct a survey, I have a sense that they will not be willing to spend any money on a solution. But it costs almost nothing to ground a fleet. especially a fleet of mostly non commercial, recreational gliders and tow aircraft.
I have no faith that the FAA would be willing to differentiate between a Schweizer tow release on a tug and a Schweizer release on a glider.

Improbable, Horrible, Worst case scenario, All Schweizer release equipped aircraft are grounded, including gliders.
Could happen? ask the owner of a Blanik l13 with 200 hrs.
If I'm being alarmist so be it. But You must acknowledge you have no idea what the goverment response will be.

Respectfully,
Scott.

Originally Posted by ND

I, along with many others, agree with burt on this one walt. go through steve northcraft if you choose to pursue this further.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage. I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.


If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly

Who is Steve Northcraft and what authority does he have to affect the situation?

Walt

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 5:43:09 PM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:
ND;948042 Wrote:
I, along with many others, agree with burt on this one walt. go through
steve northcraft if you choose to pursue this further.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:-
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage.
I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done
thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are
ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input
from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.



If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly-

Who is Steve Northcraft and what authority does he have to affect the
situation?

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

He's just the chair of the SSA Government Liaison Committee.
Other than that Mrs Kennedy, how was Dallas?
Jim

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 9:32:03 PM UTC-6, JS wrote:
On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 5:43:09 PM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:
ND;948042 Wrote:
I, along with many others, agree with burt on this one walt. go through
steve northcraft if you choose to pursue this further.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:-
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage.
I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done
thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are
ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input
from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.



If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly-

Who is Steve Northcraft and what authority does he have to affect the
situation?

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

He's just the chair of the SSA Government Liaison Committee.
Other than that Mrs Kennedy, how was Dallas?
Jim

Tried to PM Walt at an AOL address with Steve's contact info. SSA committees and member information are only visible when logged into the SSA web site.

Frank Whiteley

Originally Posted by Frank Whiteley

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 9:32:03 PM UTC-6, JS wrote:
On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 5:43:09 PM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:
ND;948042 Wrote:
I, along with many others, agree with burt on this one walt. go through
steve northcraft if you choose to pursue this further.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:-
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage.
I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done
thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are
ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input
from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.



If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly-

Who is Steve Northcraft and what authority does he have to affect the
situation?

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

He's just the chair of the SSA Government Liaison Committee.
Other than that Mrs Kennedy, how was Dallas?
Jim

Tried to PM Walt at an AOL address with Steve's contact info. SSA committees and member information are only visible when logged into the SSA web site.

Frank Whiteley

Frank,

I am in receipt of your email with Steve Northcraft's contact information. What exactly would you have me do? Submit my report to him for presentation to the FAA?

My problem is that I have found accidents as far back as 1999 which acknowledged that the tow hook release mechanism revealed the potential for binding of the release latch when the aircraft being towed moved significantly above the normal horizon position. (NTSB SEA99FA080) This among others and the acknowledgement in SSA, SFF (page 9 SSF Tow pilot training course and FAA Advisory Circular, Date 3/3/08 AC # 43.13.2B) that the release might fail to operate AT THE VERY MOMENT WHEN IT MIGHT SAVE THE TOW PILOT'S LIFE.

I can attest to the fact that these things can occur in the wink of an eye and at certain altitudes they will be potentially fatal regardless of the type of hook or release handle availability. That does NOT negate the fact that the tow pilot deserves a fighting chance to survive and should not be held captive to an antiquated system when that system is known to be prone to failure when needed the most. Been there, done that.

A Canadian soaring club 30 years ago recognized this problem as a result of an accident, they now have Tost hooks and a release up near the throttle as per Dave Springford.

The BGA recognized this problem and now it is mandated that the release handle be located close to the throttle and I am informed by reliable sources that Tost hooks are the norm.

So where is the SSA, SFF in this regard? What actions have they taken to recognize and correct this? I would be happy to put this in Steve's lap if I thought it would be properly addressed and acted on.

It is NOT my intention to inhibit in any way the soaring world here in the USA. My sole intention is to save the life of the next tow pilot who finds his or herself in a sudden kiting situation while down low with a Schweizer hook and an ineffective release handle.

Walt Connelly

Walt-

Before you go off with velocity but no direction, please supply the names and incidences of all these dead tow pilots. You see a problem because it happened to you. I agree that perhaps the Schweizer release is susceptible to failures when the towed glider is wildly out of position, and that there is likely a remedy through either inverting the release or hoping for better training.

Asking for a ban on these release mechanisms nationwide is likely to cause a large number of glider operations to halt operations since the Schweizer release is the ONLY mechanism accepted for a particular tow plane. Banning the Schweizer release is likely to shut down an active club or commercial operator.

The FAA will issue a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) prior to proposing an Airworthiness Directive that would ban the use of the Schweizer release. They will have to justify this by citing the "Unsafe conditions" that the AD is supposed to correct. You will have to supply the evidence that this is, in fact, a valid concern. Be prepared with solid evidence of fatalities, accidents incidents and testimony from affected parties. Your word and your singular experiences will not be enough.

Commercial operators and clubs faced with a significant monetary outlay to change release systems are encouraged to document the hundreds of thousands of successful aerotows using the Schweizer release with no incidents or accidents (or tow pilot fatalities).

You don't like Schweizer releases because of your particularly terrifying experience, and I can heartily agree and accept that. Glad you are still around. But, how many tows have you done with the same system that went off without a hitch?

I have fallen off a bicycle several times. (Also motorcycles, hang gliders, horses etc., etc.) but I don't see the need to stop other participants when the vast majority of operations are carried out successfully..

Or, as one of my more colorfully necked acquaintances recently said,

"Y'all don't need ta' NUKE the gopher!"

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 6:52:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Walt-

Before you go off with velocity but no direction, please supply the names and incidences of all these dead tow pilots. You see a problem because it happened to you. I agree that perhaps the Schweizer release is susceptible to failures when the towed glider is wildly out of position, and that there is likely a remedy through either inverting the release or hoping for better training.

Asking for a ban on these release mechanisms nationwide is likely to cause a large number of glider operations to halt operations since the Schweizer release is the ONLY mechanism accepted for a particular tow plane. Banning the Schweizer release is likely to shut down an active club or commercial operator.

The FAA will issue a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) prior to proposing an Airworthiness Directive that would ban the use of the Schweizer release. They will have to justify this by citing the "Unsafe conditions" that the AD is supposed to correct. You will have to supply the evidence that this is, in fact, a valid concern. Be prepared with solid evidence of fatalities, accidents incidents and testimony from affected parties. Your word and your singular experiences will not be enough.

Commercial operators and clubs faced with a significant monetary outlay to change release systems are encouraged to document the hundreds of thousands of successful aerotows using the Schweizer release with no incidents or accidents (or tow pilot fatalities).

You don't like Schweizer releases because of your particularly terrifying experience, and I can heartily agree and accept that. Glad you are still around. But, how many tows have you done with the same system that went off without a hitch?

I have fallen off a bicycle several times. (Also motorcycles, hang gliders, horses etc., etc.) but I don't see the need to stop other participants when the vast majority of operations are carried out successfully..

Or, as one of my more colorfully necked acquaintances recently said,

"Y'all don't need ta' NUKE the gopher!"

You apparently did not read my post - go back and read it this time.

Tom

Originally Posted by

Walt-

Before you go off with velocity but no direction, please supply the names and incidences of all these dead tow pilots. You see a problem because it happened to you. I agree that perhaps the Schweizer release is susceptible to failures when the towed glider is wildly out of position, and that there is likely a remedy through either inverting the release or hoping for better training.

Asking for a ban on these release mechanisms nationwide is likely to cause a large number of glider operations to halt operations since the Schweizer release is the ONLY mechanism accepted for a particular tow plane. Banning the Schweizer release is likely to shut down an active club or commercial operator.

The FAA will issue a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) prior to proposing an Airworthiness Directive that would ban the use of the Schweizer release. They will have to justify this by citing the "Unsafe conditions" that the AD is supposed to correct. You will have to supply the evidence that this is, in fact, a valid concern. Be prepared with solid evidence of fatalities, accidents incidents and testimony from affected parties. Your word and your singular experiences will not be enough.

Commercial operators and clubs faced with a significant monetary outlay to change release systems are encouraged to document the hundreds of thousands of successful aerotows using the Schweizer release with no incidents or accidents (or tow pilot fatalities).

You don't like Schweizer releases because of your particularly terrifying experience, and I can heartily agree and accept that. Glad you are still around. But, how many tows have you done with the same system that went off without a hitch?

I have fallen off a bicycle several times. (Also motorcycles, hang gliders, horses etc., etc.) but I don't see the need to stop other participants when the vast majority of operations are carried out successfully..

Or, as one of my more colorfully necked acquaintances recently said,

"Y'all don't need ta' NUKE the gopher!"

Mark,

I am surprised that you would ask the question "But how many tows have you done with the same system that went off without a hitch?" Are you serious? Well, to answer your question I have done just short of 7,000 tows prior to my "dismissal." Of those seven thousand, TWO resulted in a severe, sudden, unanticipated kiting which resulted in my need to attempt to release. Of those two situations, IN ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THEM I WAS UNABLE TO RELEASE FROM THE GLIDER.

I too have fallen from my bicycle, I was a USCF Senior Three many years and about 40 pounds ago. The bicycle fall was my fault, no one elses. I have dropped my motorcycle in the rain, my fault, no one elses. I too have fallen from a horse, my fault. The difference here is that a tow pilot is connected to a glider by a 200 foot rope and the glider pilot can negatively affect the situation with no fault of the tow pilot. If at that moment the system that is meant to save the life of the tow pilot doesn't work (and it is beyond well documented that it might not) the tow pilot could be dead. What part of this is it that some people don't seem to understand?

I am willing to allow the SFF/SAA and their representatives handle this but the fact is they have had decades to do so and have failed in this regard.


Walt