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Tailwheel Crosswind Landing



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 28th 04, 12:06 PM
Cub Driver
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One thing flying wise, if you were holding in right rudder at contact,
the tailwheel would have been cocked right. If you were holding in that
rudder and came down solid on the tail at ground contact, it could have
temporarily jammed it right on you. I've seen this happen a few times.


I think I have experienced that. As another poster suggested, it's an
argument for wheelies!

Happily the number of instances is slight, but it seems to me that if
I am going to swerve on takeoff, it is always to the left, and if I am
going to swerve on landing, it is always to the right.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum
www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net
  #12  
Old November 28th 04, 12:28 PM
PJ Hunt
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"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


but it seems to me that if
I am going to swerve on takeoff, it is always to the left, and if I am
going to swerve on landing, it is always to the right.


That makes since Dan since as you add power for take off, you create 3
factors trying to make your plane go to the left.

1) Torque
2) Corkscrew slipstream
3) Gyroscopic effect when you lift the tail.

All of these cause you to add just a little more right pedal (unless you
already have too much) to keep it straight down the centerline and not to
the left.

As you're landing, you're reducing power and speed which in turn reduces
each one of the above effects causing you to use less right pedal, or
perhaps even a little left pedal to keep it straight or from going to the
right.

PJ

============================================
Here's to the duck who swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together.
JJW
============================================




  #13  
Old November 28th 04, 07:33 PM
john smith
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Part of my preflight routine on my Champ is to lift the tail and grab
the tailsprings to assure the bolts are tight. A friend had a broken
leaf spring once from landing at an unimproved strip (a harvested
cornfield).
Tailwheel maintenance is something that must not be overlooked between
annuals.
In addition to the security of the tailwheel spring bolts, you can also
check the condition of the wheel bearings, hub and axle, and pivot, lock
mechanism and bearings. Don't forget to add grease to the fitting every
couple of months.


wrote:
I am a long term lurker and have a question regarding landing tailwheel
airplanes in a crosswind. I have about 250 hours in a Piper PA-12 Super
Cruiser. The other day during a very routine crosswind landing I
started heading for the weeds faster than I new what to do.

I had a fairly gentle cross wind from the left. I had cancelled out all
sideways drift by lowering my left wing and aligned the plane with the
runway with right rudder. At touchdown, everything seemed perfect. That
is when all hell broke loose. As soon as I touched down, I started a
very fast turn to the right. At one point I was headed right between
two runway light. As I was deciding that "between" was not a bad place
to be, I finally managed to straighten everything out and managed to
stay on the runway.

In talking to my mechanic as soon as I touched down (I was sure there
was a mechanical problem), he figured that with all of the right rudder
needed to keep things straight, that my tailwheel just sent me to the
right once it touched down.

My question is, what was really going on here? Should my tailwheel
have released (castored) when I touched down? Your thoughts are greatly
appreciated.

Thanks.

Tom


  #14  
Old November 29th 04, 12:01 AM
Dudley Henriques
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It's a "sometimes issue" with some Scott's, but if you have an original
tailwheel on the Cub, I don't think that one malfunctions all that much,
at least I don'r ever remember having a problem with them.
Dudley
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

One thing flying wise, if you were holding in right rudder at contact,
the tailwheel would have been cocked right. If you were holding in
that
rudder and came down solid on the tail at ground contact, it could
have
temporarily jammed it right on you. I've seen this happen a few times.


I think I have experienced that. As another poster suggested, it's an
argument for wheelies!

Happily the number of instances is slight, but it seems to me that if
I am going to swerve on takeoff, it is always to the left, and if I am
going to swerve on landing, it is always to the right.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum
www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net



  #15  
Old November 29th 04, 03:59 PM
Brian Case
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Here is my scenero as to what often happens in this situation.

As you flare the Fuselage Blocks some of the airflow over the Rudder
thus reducing its effectiveness. So just as you touch down the Rudder
becomes less effective. If the Stick is not pulled all the way back
the Tailwheel is just barely pushing down on the pavement and
contributes very little to steering. And there you have it, a good
cross wind, reduced rudder effectiveness and an ineffective tailwheel
leads to loss of directional control. As the airplane slows down the
weight on the tailwheel increases and so does the steering
effectiveness, And you may regain control, before something bad
happens.

Wheel landings, keep the rudder more effective until you put the tail
down, But there is less going on when you put the tail down and you
are more likely to maintain directional control. But be sure to really
put it down, Pull all the way back on the stick.

Or just get the stick all the way back to start with.

Or, be more prepared for a go around. When a landings starts going
bad. Throw power at it. This will increase the rudder effectiveness,
plus switch your thinking from "got to land it" to "got to fly it."


Brian
CFIIG/ASEL


wrote in message m...
In article ,
says...
Wheel landing or full-stall?
How wide was the runway?
Did you keep the rudder and aileron in or relax and neutralize the
controls once the wheels were on?
Did you suck the stick full back into your gut?
If you don't pull it all the way, you don't get enough pressure on the
tailwheel.


Landing was three point.
It was a big wide runway, 75 x 3500. Sussex, NJ (FWN)
Hard to recall, but I was probably not relaxed enough.
The stick probably could have been back further.

  #16  
Old November 29th 04, 04:43 PM
Dan Thomas
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john smith wrote in message .. .
Part of my preflight routine on my Champ is to lift the tail and grab
the tailsprings to assure the bolts are tight. A friend had a broken
leaf spring once from landing at an unimproved strip (a harvested
cornfield).
Tailwheel maintenance is something that must not be overlooked between
annuals.
In addition to the security of the tailwheel spring bolts, you can also
check the condition of the wheel bearings, hub and axle, and pivot, lock
mechanism and bearings. Don't forget to add grease to the fitting every
couple of months.


Amen to that. Add to it: There's a small steering lock inside the
tailwheel, and if it breaks, things can get interesting. Normally, the
pilot will usually notice the lack of directional control to one side
during taxi.
This pilot's problem likely came from a sticky tailwheel steering
pivot. The Scott needs lots of care. We run two of them on Citabrias,
and they're apart every 200 hours or so, sometimes more often. There's
a steering brake within the unit that's supposed to prevent shimmy
(which it doesn't), and if dirt or water gets into it, things get
sticky. The pilot will often complain of having to hold left rudder in
cruise, a sure sign of a sticky pivot. Using right rudder on takeoff
and climb puts the wheel to the right a bit, after which the steering
springs pull the rudder to the right and necessitating left pedal in
cruise.
Too much grease thru that fitting will foul the steering lock and
make it hard to unlock to caster the wheel.

Dan
  #17  
Old November 29th 04, 04:57 PM
G.R. Patterson III
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Dan Thomas wrote:

The Scott needs lots of care. details deleted


Wow. Glad I have a Maule.

George Patterson
My mother is 82 and she still doesn't need glasses.
Drinks right out of the bottle.
  #18  
Old November 29th 04, 09:09 PM
Rick Macklem
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wrote in message m...
I am a long term lurker and have a question regarding landing tailwheel
airplanes in a crosswind. I have about 250 hours in a Piper PA-12 Super
Cruiser. The other day during a very routine crosswind landing I
started heading for the weeds faster than I new what to do.


Sounds like you might have been bit by that nastly little beast called
"complacency". To me, the hint is "a very routine". I think you've
learned
that ain't necessarily the case:-) I've always found that a light, but
variable,
wind to be about the most difficult to land a tailwheel airplane in.
I've been
surprised by swings at least a few times on those days. When the wind
is strong
and from the left, for example, you know it's a crosswind from the
left. In light winds, it may be a left crosswind now, but a second
from now??

I had a fairly gentle cross wind from the left. I had cancelled out all
sideways drift by lowering my left wing and aligned the plane with the
runway with right rudder. At touchdown, everything seemed perfect. That
is when all hell broke loose. As soon as I touched down, I started a
very fast turn to the right. At one point I was headed right between
two runway light. As I was deciding that "between" was not a bad place
to be, I finally managed to straighten everything out and managed to
stay on the runway.

Sounds like you made a good save. Good job! As others have noted,
checking the tailwheel
for problems sounds like a good idea. About the most experienced
tailwheel
pilot I've known (with over 10,000hrs of tailwheel dual given) says "a
well
maintained tailwheel is the cheapest insurance you can buy". Having
said
that, I wouldn't be surprised if there's nothing wrong with it. A wild
guess
would be that the left crosswind died just before you touched down. At
that
point, your left wing down caused you to drift to the left and that,
combined
with the right rudder, caused the swing. In the end, sooner or later I
think
we'll all get a good swing (I know I have:-) and you pulled off the
save, which
is great. I suspect your save will happen more quickly next time.

Don't know if this'll help, rick
ps: The same instructor mentioned above, used to say that the most
inportant
pre-landing check he did was to "shake his head and remind himself
it's
time to focus on landing" when on final.
  #19  
Old November 29th 04, 11:15 PM
Robert M. Gary
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wrote in message m...
I am a long term lurker and have a question regarding landing tailwheel
airplanes in a crosswind. I have about 250 hours in a Piper PA-12 Super
Cruiser. The other day during a very routine crosswind landing I
started heading for the weeds faster than I new what to do.

I had a fairly gentle cross wind from the left. I had cancelled out all
sideways drift by lowering my left wing and aligned the plane with the
runway with right rudder. At touchdown, everything seemed perfect. That
is when all hell broke loose. As soon as I touched down, I started a
very fast turn to the right. At one point I was headed right between
two runway light. As I was deciding that "between" was not a bad place
to be, I finally managed to straighten everything out and managed to
stay on the runway.

In talking to my mechanic as soon as I touched down (I was sure there
was a mechanical problem), he figured that with all of the right rudder
needed to keep things straight, that my tailwheel just sent me to the
right once it touched down.

My question is, what was really going on here? Should my tailwheel
have released (castored) when I touched down? Your thoughts are greatly
appreciated.


The tailwheel probably shouldn't have castored but usually has some
spring difference. I have had the tailwheel castor after landing.
Everything seems fine until you get down to about 10 knots and then
find you have 100% no directional control. Luckily, I got back on the
brakes soon. You want to ensure the castor doesn't break loose too
soon.

Could it be possible that you didn't have the nose properly lined up
so you actually touched down a bit in a crab? That can cause such
problems.

-Robert, tailwheel CFI
  #20  
Old November 30th 04, 01:17 AM
Dave Stadt
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"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dan Thomas wrote:

The Scott needs lots of care. details deleted


Wow. Glad I have a Maule.

George Patterson
My mother is 82 and she still doesn't need glasses.
Drinks right out of the bottle.


Then again my Scott 3200 has performed without a flaw for 500 hours with
just normal lube at annual.


 




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