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Wind/Solar Electrics ???



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 15th 05, 02:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???


"RST Engineering" wrote in message
.. .

Think about a modest solar system for lighting only and a generator for the
rest. I have 100 watts of solar panels and a small charge controller that
easily runs two 60 watt-equivalent compact fluorescent lamps that have been
lighting up my yard every night for the last several years. The battery bank
for that little solar system doubles as the starting battery for my generator.
One of those pad-mounted generators you see at Home Depot could easily handle
the machine shop tools and would probably only see a few hours of use per month.

To get an idea of solar prices, try he http://www.sunelec.com/index.html

Vaughn


  #12  
Old December 15th 05, 05:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

The economics still aren't there for solar in most situations unless PG&E
has a high minimium monthly bill. The place to same money here in Sandpoint
is on sewer and water. The connection fees are high and the minimium bill
is about $40. One well and one leach field could serve numerous hangers.

Mike
MU-2


"RST Engineering" wrote in message
.. .
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars,
conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per
hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a
wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a
small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle
the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for
the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large
batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators,
and a reasonable source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim



  #13  
Old December 15th 05, 05:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

Jim,

Check out http://www.realgoods.com/renew/index.cfm They have a store near
you and also catalog that is very informative on sustainable, off-grid
living and systems.

Mike
MU-2


"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
With a small solar panel to keep the continuous load going, not a bad way
to go.

Jim

Seems running a generator would be simpler and cheaper.






  #14  
Old December 15th 05, 06:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:34:35 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

Jim,

Check out http://www.realgoods.com/renew/index.cfm They have a store near
you and also catalog that is very informative on sustainable, off-grid
living and systems.

I've had my reservations about RG ever since they endorsed those
piezoelectric washing-machine tablets.

More than anything though, CE/UL-approved grid-connect inverters (ok
AND EU subsidies, especially in Germany) are helping to increase cell
and panel manufacturing capacity. Which is essential to driving down
cost. I think off-the-grid is fine for hangars and folks in Idaho
with acres and acres of acres, but grid-connect is where the volume
is.

Don
  #15  
Old December 15th 05, 03:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:02:56 -0800, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity

snip
My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

snip
Comments appreciated.


Clever idea. Good luck with it.

Are the hangar doors electric? If so - make sure you have enough
surge current capability to get the motor started. I have a 120V /
1850W generator and it did not have enough juice to raise the door
during a power outage.

-Nathan

  #16  
Old December 15th 05, 05:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

Hey Jim,

Try looking through this.

http://www.homepower.com/

My son has provide me some literature on renewable energy and I am
convinced with some up front spending you can survive anywere without
the power grid. You may need a 5KW generator at time when the wind,
solar, etc give out.


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

RST Engineering wrote:
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit
romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and
then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar
system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small
grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim


  #17  
Old December 15th 05, 05:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Posts: n/a
Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

The hangar doors have the Armstrong opening/closing mechanism.

Jim



"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:02:56 -0800, "RST Engineering"
wrote:


Clever idea. Good luck with it.

Are the hangar doors electric? If so - make sure you have enough
surge current capability to get the motor started. I have a 120V /
1850W generator and it did not have enough juice to raise the door
during a power outage.

-Nathan



  #18  
Old December 15th 05, 06:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Posts: n/a
Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

Hey Jim,
Check the cruising boat and trawler chat groups... THey have off the
grid down to a science..
Solar cells to keep your battery set charged and a generator for surge
loads... Better yet, is a DC alternator on your truck for charging the
batteries adn doing welding on the side.. see here
http://www.ceniehoff.com/products/al... 2-1&keyword=

denny

  #19  
Old December 15th 05, 09:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,sci.electronics.design
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Posts: n/a
Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???

Jim,
Try alt.energy.homepower or alt.solar.photovoltaic. Lots of experts there.
Michelle

RST Engineering wrote:

After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit
romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and
then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar
system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small
grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim




  #20  
Old December 16th 05, 01:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
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Posts: n/a
Default Wind/Solar Electrics ???


Try an outfit called "Real Goods". They are a bunch of old hippies who
started out with a lot of alternative energy products. They are now into
consumer goods, but I believe they still do solar. Their older catalogs
have a lot of planning information in them. At one time they were
trying to sell some older used panels that a power company offed when
they shelved a project. It was many years ago, but they may still have
some left.

Running fluorescents is a snap with solar. Any bigger load gets complex
and expensive fast.

Good Luck,
Mike
 




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