US Tasking? Are way too many TATs/MATs are being called vs. NOTENOUGH ASSIGNED TASKS (3% in 2013)

Here is a crude but accurate Google spreadsheet summarizing the 2013 "Task Mix" in the US (SSA sanctioned).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

OVERALL 2013 US Tasks
Total # of Tasks 209
Turn Area Tasks 142 68%
Modified Assigned Tasks 60 29.00%
PURE Assigned Tasks 7 3% (YES, that says 3 PERCENT! 7 total AT's in the US in 2013.)
* Many of the MAT's were the infamous 1 turn MAT!

2013 US Nationals Tasks
(includes 15/18/Open/Standard/Sports/Club)
Total # of Tasks 48
Turn Area Tasks 28 58.33%
Modified Assigned Tasks 15 31.25%
PURE Assigned Tasks 5 10.42%
* All 3 of the 15/Open MATs were ONE TURN MATs
* 2 of the Sports/Club Nationals MAT's were NO TURN MATs.

Is 3% Assigned Tasks OVERALL and 10% Assigned Tasks in US Nationals the right tasking mix?

I for one would like to see FAR more pure Assigned Tasks in 2015 and beyond. What is everybody afraid of again?

Sincerely,

Sean

PS - 3% total assigned tasks in the USA in 2013? Really???????

On Monday, July 28, 2014 2:17:12 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
Here is a crude but accurate Google spreadsheet summarizing the 2013 "Task Mix" in the US (SSA sanctioned).



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing



OVERALL 2013 US Tasks

Total # of Tasks 209

Turn Area Tasks 142 68%

Modified Assigned Tasks 60 29.00%

PURE Assigned Tasks 7 3% (YES, that says 3 PERCENT! 7 total AT's in the US in 2013.)

* Many of the MAT's were the infamous 1 turn MAT!



2013 US Nationals Tasks

(includes 15/18/Open/Standard/Sports/Club)

Total # of Tasks 48

Turn Area Tasks 28 58.33%

Modified Assigned Tasks 15 31.25%

PURE Assigned Tasks 5 10.42%

* All 3 of the 15/Open MATs were ONE TURN MATs

* 2 of the Sports/Club Nationals MAT's were NO TURN MATs.



Is 3% Assigned Tasks OVERALL and 10% Assigned Tasks in US Nationals the right tasking mix?



I for one would like to see FAR more pure Assigned Tasks in 2015 and beyond. What is everybody afraid of again?



Sincerely,



Sean



PS - 3% total assigned tasks in the USA in 2013? Really???????

Agree 100%. An area task or MAT should be used in a pinch, like maintenance deferrals in the airlines. Not for routine. What's the point in a race when you call 15 mile cylinders...may as well just all go fly whatever we want and post it on OLC. Racing should be as close to "round the pylons, first one home wins" as possible. This sport is complicated enough as it is, making task logic beyond an FAI style assigned task only makes it more intimidating for new people thinking of getting into racing.

Jordan
ASW20 E

i think it is important to distinguish between 1 turn MAT's and more medium or long distance MAT's. The 1 turn MAT has strongly flavored most pilots opinions of MAT's in general but a well called "Long MAT" or even a "Medium MAT" is not far from a good ole fashioned assigned task in the "fun factor", in my opinion. A long MAT also allows for a lot of flexibility in the event that the day doesn't develop as quickly as hoped, or if there is a lot of question as to how quickly the day is going to develop, i.e. the last day at Sports Class Nationals 2014

As usual, this is really a CD issue, make sure your CD is educated and that your task advisors are also educated.

This should read:

"all 6 of the 15/Open MATS (2 classes, 3 days, 6 tasks total of the 15 for the year at Nationals) were 1 Turn MATS"

That is nearly 50% of the 15 MATS in 2013.

Sean

On Monday, July 28, 2014 3:17:12 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Here is a crude but accurate Google spreadsheet summarizing the 2013 "Task Mix" in the US (SSA sanctioned).



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing



OVERALL 2013 US Tasks

Total # of Tasks 209

Turn Area Tasks 142 68%

Modified Assigned Tasks 60 29.00%

PURE Assigned Tasks 7 3% (YES, that says 3 PERCENT! 7 total AT's in the US in 2013.)

* Many of the MAT's were the infamous 1 turn MAT!



2013 US Nationals Tasks

(includes 15/18/Open/Standard/Sports/Club)

Total # of Tasks 48

Turn Area Tasks 28 58.33%

Modified Assigned Tasks 15 31.25%

PURE Assigned Tasks 5 10.42%

* All 3 of the 15/Open MATs were ONE TURN MATs

* 2 of the Sports/Club Nationals MAT's were NO TURN MATs.



Is 3% Assigned Tasks OVERALL and 10% Assigned Tasks in US Nationals the right tasking mix?



I for one would like to see FAR more pure Assigned Tasks in 2015 and beyond. What is everybody afraid of again?



Sincerely,



Sean



PS - 3% total assigned tasks in the USA in 2013? Really???????

On Monday, July 28, 2014 1:17:12 PM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Here is a crude but accurate Google spreadsheet summarizing the 2013 "Task Mix" in the US (SSA sanctioned).



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing



OVERALL 2013 US Tasks

Total # of Tasks 209

Turn Area Tasks 142 68%

Modified Assigned Tasks 60 29.00%

PURE Assigned Tasks 7 3% (YES, that says 3 PERCENT! 7 total AT's in the US in 2013.)

* Many of the MAT's were the infamous 1 turn MAT!



2013 US Nationals Tasks

(includes 15/18/Open/Standard/Sports/Club)

Total # of Tasks 48

Turn Area Tasks 28 58.33%

Modified Assigned Tasks 15 31.25%

PURE Assigned Tasks 5 10.42%

* All 3 of the 15/Open MATs were ONE TURN MATs

* 2 of the Sports/Club Nationals MAT's were NO TURN MATs.



Is 3% Assigned Tasks OVERALL and 10% Assigned Tasks in US Nationals the right tasking mix?



I for one would like to see FAR more pure Assigned Tasks in 2015 and beyond. What is everybody afraid of again?



Sincerely,



Sean



PS - 3% total assigned tasks in the USA in 2013? Really???????

I agree 100% - more AST -

Why I prefer time-limited tasks -- MAT, long MAT, TAT -- to assigned tasks:

AST's are great tests of tactical skill. Start gate timing, watching the gaggle, start late, catch them...but not too late; pass one gaggle, get on top maybe jump to the next one...or maybe just sit on top of your gaggle and coast home. Time limited tasks are better tests of pilot skill, reading the weather and the terrain. I prefer to focus on those skills.

Time and landouts. If there is a spread in pilot skills, CDs will assign much shorter tasks so the slow guys can get home. That means fast guys fly less, maybe a lot less. Tasks are already too short.

Land 'em out, you say. Back to the good old days when the target was 70% completion and often a lot less. Indeed, the only thing that breaks up the gaggle and gets people to actually start is fear of the end of the day.

Now think hard about racing with routine 30% handouts. (Sean, since you seem to have time for data collection, get the number of land outs at nationals in your sample. I'm willing to bet it's way less than 30%). This means a dedicated crew is a necessity. Or a motor. There is a reason Europe is full of motor gliders.

How many pilots are really going to go take their gliding vacations racing, if racing means lots of high traffic gaggle flying, shorter flights, lots and lots of land outs, needing a crew or a motor? How many new pilots are going to stick with it if they land out day after day after day?

Not for me.

But, as others have pointed out, this is not about rules. It's about CDs. It would be a very good idea at the safety meeting for a CD to poll the pilots about how much they want pure AST, long MAT, MAT, or TAT. And, specifically, in less than perfect weather. When there are storms, blue holes, cirrus, etc., y'all really want to be sent to specific airports?

John Cochrane

On Monday, July 28, 2014 4:33:09 PM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote:
Why I prefer time-limited tasks -- MAT, long MAT, TAT -- to assigned tasks:



AST's are great tests of tactical skill. Start gate timing, watching the gaggle, start late, catch them...but not too late; pass one gaggle, get on top maybe jump to the next one...or maybe just sit on top of your gaggle and coast home. Time limited tasks are better tests of pilot skill, reading the weather and the terrain. I prefer to focus on those skills.



Time and landouts. If there is a spread in pilot skills, CDs will assign much shorter tasks so the slow guys can get home. That means fast guys fly less, maybe a lot less. Tasks are already too short.



Land 'em out, you say. Back to the good old days when the target was 70% completion and often a lot less. Indeed, the only thing that breaks up the gaggle and gets people to actually start is fear of the end of the day.



Now think hard about racing with routine 30% handouts. (Sean, since you seem to have time for data collection, get the number of land outs at nationals in your sample. I'm willing to bet it's way less than 30%). This means a dedicated crew is a necessity. Or a motor. There is a reason Europe is full of motor gliders.



How many pilots are really going to go take their gliding vacations racing, if racing means lots of high traffic gaggle flying, shorter flights, lots and lots of land outs, needing a crew or a motor? How many new pilots are going to stick with it if they land out day after day after day?



Not for me.



But, as others have pointed out, this is not about rules. It's about CDs. It would be a very good idea at the safety meeting for a CD to poll the pilots about how much they want pure AST, long MAT, MAT, or TAT. And, specifically, in less than perfect weather. When there are storms, blue holes, cirrus, etc., y'all really want to be sent to specific airports?



John Cochrane

Right on John. If the weather would've been just a touch bluer or the task just a bit larger, the AST called for the 2014 Club Class would've been a mass landout. As it was, somewhere around half of the Modern Class landed out on their AST, which I think was 40 miles longer than Clubs. As it was, at least the younger half of the Club Class that I had supper with that night seemed to really enjoy the task, probably mostly because hardly any of us had ever flown one. I know it was my first time after flying only Sports Class Regionals and the 1-26 Championships. I couldn't help thinking though that we were not far from a mass landout and showing the "dark side" of the AST.

I for one fly with a crew and don't mind landing out (i'm really good at it actually!) but I think most competitors would tire of that quickly. Maybe having more AST's would inspire more pilots to fly with a crew instead of driving them away from contests.

On Monday, 28 July 2014 15:33:09 UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
Why I prefer time-limited tasks -- MAT, long MAT, TAT -- to assigned tasks:



AST's are great tests of tactical skill. Start gate timing, watching the gaggle, start late, catch them...but not too late; pass one gaggle, get on top maybe jump to the next one...or maybe just sit on top of your gaggle and coast home. Time limited tasks are better tests of pilot skill, reading the weather and the terrain. I prefer to focus on those skills.



Time and landouts. If there is a spread in pilot skills, CDs will assign much shorter tasks so the slow guys can get home. That means fast guys fly less, maybe a lot less. Tasks are already too short.



Land 'em out, you say. Back to the good old days when the target was 70% completion and often a lot less. Indeed, the only thing that breaks up the gaggle and gets people to actually start is fear of the end of the day.



Now think hard about racing with routine 30% handouts. (Sean, since you seem to have time for data collection, get the number of land outs at nationals in your sample. I'm willing to bet it's way less than 30%). This means a dedicated crew is a necessity. Or a motor. There is a reason Europe is full of motor gliders.



How many pilots are really going to go take their gliding vacations racing, if racing means lots of high traffic gaggle flying, shorter flights, lots and lots of land outs, needing a crew or a motor? How many new pilots are going to stick with it if they land out day after day after day?



Not for me.



But, as others have pointed out, this is not about rules. It's about CDs. It would be a very good idea at the safety meeting for a CD to poll the pilots about how much they want pure AST, long MAT, MAT, or TAT. And, specifically, in less than perfect weather. When there are storms, blue holes, cirrus, etc., y'all really want to be sent to specific airports?



John Cochrane

What John wrote 8-)

I would like to reemphasize that the contest management folks and task advisers should get input from the pilots. If a certain class wants AT's then let them have em. IMO these tasks put much more pressure on task selecting and understanding the weather and the tasking area

(Many snips)

Now think hard about racing with routine 30% handouts. This means a dedicated crew is a necessity.

John Cochrane

WX needed a crew for the 15M Nationals in Montague. He got one the easy way - he asked - right here on RAS. Try it. I had fun crewing for him.

WX needed a crew for the 15M Nationals in Montague. He got one the easy way - he asked - right here on RAS. Try it. I had fun crewing for him.

I have brought crew to many contests, some paid, some volunteers. My family doesn't go. Many have been nice people, and some have benefited from the experience. Still, even if just covering expenses, we're talking a substantial amount of money, and a person to take care of. Even at nationals these days, up to half the pilots arrive without crew. If we go to assigned tasks, and thus substantially up the land out percentage, we substantially raise the cost of participating.

John Cochrane