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Another mid-air (UK)



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 4th 14, 12:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 51
Default Another mid-air (UK)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz39BhomNQI

7U
  #2  
Old August 4th 14, 01:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neil Goudie[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default Another mid-air (UK)

Don't fall into the trap that on-line newspapers date stamp stories with
today's date. This article relates to an event on Saturday 26 August
2014.

For the record there have been 4 notifiable Midairs in the last 2 years in
the UK.

All have had successful outcomes (in terms of casualties) and all with 1
pilot bailing out and the other pilot(s) landing.

A success story in terms of pilot training for the positive outcome but
more of an issue in terms of why they are occuring in the first place.

I won't speculate as the last 3 have occurred in the last 3 months and I
haven't read the formal reports.

Neil


At 11:33 04 August 2014, wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz39BhomNQI

7U


  #3  
Old August 4th 14, 01:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neil Goudie[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default Another mid-air (UK)

Don't fall into the trap that on-line newspapers date stamp stories with
today's date. This article relates to an event on Saturday 26 August
2014.

For the record there have been 4 notifiable Midairs in the last 2 years in
the UK.

All have had successful outcomes (in terms of casualties) and all with 1
pilot bailing out and the other pilot(s) landing.

A success story in terms of pilot training for the positive outcome but
more of an issue in terms of why they are occuring in the first place.

I won't speculate as the last 3 have occurred in the last 3 months and I
haven't read the formal reports.

Neil


At 11:33 04 August 2014, wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz39BhomNQI

7U


  #4  
Old August 4th 14, 01:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neil Goudie[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Another mid-air (UK)

Don't fall into the trap that on-line newspapers date stamp stories with
today's date. This article relates to an event on Saturday 26 August
2014.

For the record there have been 4 notifiable Midairs in the last 2 years in
the UK.

All have had successful outcomes (in terms of casualties) and all with 1
pilot bailing out and the other pilot(s) landing.

A success story in terms of pilot training for the positive outcome but
more of an issue in terms of why they are occuring in the first place.

I won't speculate as the last 3 have occurred in the last 3 months and I
haven't read the formal reports.

Neil


At 11:33 04 August 2014, wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz39BhomNQI

7U


  #5  
Old August 4th 14, 02:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Posts: 1,550
Default Another mid-air (UK)

On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:13:54 AM UTC-4, Neil Goudie wrote:
This article relates to an event on Saturday 26 August 2014.


July?
  #6  
Old August 4th 14, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Neil Goudie[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default Another mid-air (UK)

At 13:21 04 August 2014, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:13:54 AM UTC-4, Neil Goudie wrote:
This article relates to an event on Saturday 26 August 2014.


July?


Yes July. I flipped by calendar this morning at work.

  #7  
Old August 4th 14, 05:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Posts: 601
Default Another mid-air (UK)

Still hoping to hear about Flarm status in all the midairs mentioned and if they all happened in crowded gaggles. Understandably Flarm effectiveness diminishes in crowded thermals.

Ramy
  #8  
Old August 4th 14, 06:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Stats Watcher
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Posts: 6
Default Another mid-air (UK)

At 16:11 04 August 2014, Ramy wrote:
Still hoping to hear about Flarm status in all the midairs

mentioned and if
they all happened in crowded gaggles. Understandably Flarm

effectiveness
diminishes in crowded thermals.

Ramy


Of the 3 incidents, 3 of the 6 gliders are confirmed as carrying
FLARM, the status of the other 3 is still not confirmed, so they too
could have been.

In 1 incident 2 FLARM carrying gliders flew alone in a thermal for 13
turns before hitting each other.

Overall given the number/rate of Flarm carrying gliders in the UK
they are significantly over represented in these recent stats. The
conclusion maybe that for some reason carrying FLARM increases
the risk of collision compared to not carrying it! ... discuss...

  #9  
Old August 4th 14, 08:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default Another mid-air (UK)

On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:55:55 AM UTC-7, Stats Watcher wrote:
At 16:11 04 August 2014, Ramy wrote:

Still hoping to hear about Flarm status in all the midairs


mentioned and if

they all happened in crowded gaggles. Understandably Flarm


effectiveness

diminishes in crowded thermals.




Ramy






Of the 3 incidents, 3 of the 6 gliders are confirmed as carrying

FLARM, the status of the other 3 is still not confirmed, so they too

could have been.



In 1 incident 2 FLARM carrying gliders flew alone in a thermal for 13

turns before hitting each other.



Overall given the number/rate of Flarm carrying gliders in the UK

they are significantly over represented in these recent stats. The

conclusion maybe that for some reason carrying FLARM increases

the risk of collision compared to not carrying it! ... discuss...


Complacency?

I continue to refer to my Flarm brick as an in-flight entertainment system, not a collision detection system. It contributes to situational awareness, but only the pilot can prevent collision.

Statistically speaking, one could propose a number of reasons why gliders with Flarm are more likely to be flying in gaggles and therefore more at risk of collision (more active pilots with newer equipment, more likely to be flying in contests, etc.).
  #10  
Old August 4th 14, 08:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected][_1_]
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Posts: 97
Default Another mid-air (UK)

A working hypothesis is that FLARM lulls pilots into a sense of false security and psychologically offloads the responsibility of traffic separation onto a "black box". Probably especially true with younger pilots who rely on electronic devices to do tasks for them on a daily basis.

Similar behavior occurs when pilots take the output of their NAV systems as fact. Some really smart, highly experienced pilots have landed in some really poor spots because the Black Box said they could get home, notwithstanding there was clearly a mountain range in the way and the required glide angle was uphill. They believed in the Black Box output more than on their own eyes.

This also occurs on the White- Inyo Mt Range in CA, USA. A procedure was initiated 15-20 years ago to reduce midair potential using a standardized position reporting scheme. Pilots became complacent by assuming they knew where all gliders were located due to radio reports. Such folks can easily be identified by how upset they sound when a NORDO glider suddenly appeared in their environment.


This behavior is also seen in people who own cars. They no longer "preflight" the oil, tires or other systems because a system will (allegedly) do it for them.

A CFI friend has a large sign in his flight kit that says "COMPLACENCY KILLS".

Spot On!

I also believe that anything (NAV displays, FLARM, visual "Thermal Maximizers") that causes you to focus significant amounts of time inside the cockpit, are a serious detriment to safety and probably X-C performance. Somebody famous once said "90% of what you need to know is outside the cockpit" That is still true, in my opinion.

 




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