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Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 12th 12, 11:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BergfalkeIV
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Posts: 5
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

Hello,

can one of our Italian friends advise on the situation regarding aerotows behind Ultralights registered in Italy?

-is it permitted, regulated ?
-are there specific documents in addition to certification obtained in country or Origin (for example Slovenia)
-are there set requirements for the tow pilot?

I have seen reports of this having been done, but would like to find out the legal situation.

many thanks

V. Mazis
Ads
  #2  
Old October 13th 12, 12:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
cernauta
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Posts: 121
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

The law currently allows only the towing of ultralight gliders, with
ultralight planes.

The experiments were ok even with ballasted Standard class gliders,
but the rule has been revised in the last few years.

Some of us are, in facts, exploring the legal feasibility of towing
gliders in Italy with a German registered microlight. I wouldn't bet
my money on this.

aldo cernezzi
www.voloavela.it

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:49:00 -0700 (PDT), BergfalkeIV
wrote:

Hello,

can one of our Italian friends advise on the situation regarding aerotows behind Ultralights registered in Italy?

-is it permitted, regulated ?
-are there specific documents in addition to certification obtained in country or Origin (for example Slovenia)
-are there set requirements for the tow pilot?

I have seen reports of this having been done, but would like to find out the legal situation.

many thanks

V. Mazis


  #3  
Old October 13th 12, 10:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BergfalkeIV
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Posts: 5
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing


Thanks, Aldo.

I was expecting an answer from you!
Do you know if the restriction comes from the ultralight legislation or the glider legislation?
Are there specific grounds for which Italy reasons differently to Germany known?

Let me make the question more provocative:

Would it be possible to operate an I-reg ultralight to tow a German glider:
i. In Italy
ii. Outside of Italy, in Germany perhaps.

Would the problem be overcome if there is a "Permit to fly, sometimes used to overcome gross weight issues, with the associated problem of a PPL license required?

http://www.pipistrel.si/news/virus-s...tf-600-kg-mtow

thanks again,

Vassilios
  #4  
Old October 15th 12, 03:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
cernauta
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Posts: 121
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

Since about two years, the regulation of "ultralight" activities is
given by the rule " DECRETO DEL PRESIDENTE DELLA REPUBBLICA 9 luglio
2010, n. 133".
At article 10 it says:

ART. 10
(Voli in formazione, traino e precedenze per il volo libero)
1. LĺattivitÓ VDS in formazione Ŕ svolta dai piloti in possesso
dellĺabilitazione di cui dallĺarticolo 11, comma 14.
2. Il pilota in possesso dellĺabilitazione di cui allĺarticolo 11,
comma 14, pu˛ svolgere lĺattivitÓ di traino aereo di apparecchi da
volo libero e di alianti VDS. LĺattivitÓ di traino Ŕ consentita
con i soli apparecchi prodotti in serie ovvero in kit di montaggio,
dichiarati idonei al traino dal costruttore e autorizzati dallĺAero
Club dĺItalia con apposita annotazione sul certificato
di identificazione, in conformitÓ alle prescrizioni riportate nel
manuale di volo.

That is: the pilot of an ultralight needs an endorsement to be allowed
to tow other ultralight sailplanes or "free flight" devices (meaning
hang and para -gliders). Only planes built from factory kits or in
series production may be used for towing, if declared approved by the
factory and the approval statement printed in the certificate of the
aircraft.

The rules in Italy about ultralight flying and aircraft are very
different from those of other european countries.
If the aircraft had a Permit-to-fly, then it would be registered with
the ENAC, not the AeCI; it would then be operated under the rules of
General Aviation, so you would need a PPL, not a VDS license. These
are two completely different worlds.
The above "decreto" would not apply. The only advantage would be the
reduced fuel costs for such an aircraft. The legislative burden, and
the costs for getting and renewing a PPL would be those typical of
General Aviation.

aldo cernezzi
www.voloavela.it




On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT), BergfalkeIV
wrote:


Thanks, Aldo.

I was expecting an answer from you!
Do you know if the restriction comes from the ultralight legislation or the glider legislation?
Are there specific grounds for which Italy reasons differently to Germany known?

Let me make the question more provocative:

Would it be possible to operate an I-reg ultralight to tow a German glider:
i. In Italy
ii. Outside of Italy, in Germany perhaps.

Would the problem be overcome if there is a "Permit to fly, sometimes used to overcome gross weight issues, with the associated problem of a PPL license required?

http://www.pipistrel.si/news/virus-s...tf-600-kg-mtow

thanks again,

Vassilios


  #5  
Old October 15th 12, 07:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BergfalkeIV
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Posts: 5
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

Once again, thanks.

in the translation:

"Only planes built from factory kits or in
series production may be used for towing, if declared approved by the
factory and the approval statement printed in the certificate of the
aircraft".

I am somewhat unclear about whether it applies to the preceding sentence(ultralight gliders) or in general.

The Virus SW 100, for example, is certified for heavy tows by the manufacturer, the LBA and is in series production, could that be used to tow "normal" gliders?

Vassilios

at 3Euro/lt for 100LL,
you can understand the motivation
  #6  
Old October 16th 12, 01:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
cernauta
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Posts: 121
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:50:41 -0700 (PDT), BergfalkeIV
wrote:

I am somewhat unclear about whether it applies to the preceding sentence(ultralight gliders) or in general.


to the preceding sentence.


The Virus SW 100, for example, is certified for heavy tows by the manufacturer, the LBA and is in series production, could that be used to tow "normal" gliders?


Yes, if it's registered as an aircraft (I-ABCD) and the pilot holds a
PPL with towing endorsment;
No, if as an ultralight (I-1234) under the Rule106 - DPR 133 (VDS,
Volo Diporto Sportivo, usually referred to as "ultralight flying"), no
matter what licence the pilot holds.

I guess some people are still occasionally towing gliders with
ultralights, probably because they have an agreement from an insurance
company. Nevertheless, this is outside the boundaries stated by the
rule, and if an accident happens, things might get very complicated in
the court.

It is also possible if it's registered in another EU country, but then
you might find serious problems when it comes to towing a glider used
for basic training with a pupil on board of the glider.


Vassilios

at 3Euro/lt for 100LL,
you can understand the motivation


of course.
There are certified conversion kits for Avgas on Robin dr400s, also.
The Aerospool Dynamic is an example of a widely used light towplane.
With the correct propeller and given it's not a difficult day, it can
run the job just as well as a Robin, with much lower costs.

From my point of view, and after my own direct few experiences, all
ultralights need some more power to tow gliders efficiently, reliably
and safely. I think some new engines of about 130 HP output have a
great potential. One of them is built in Italy, the MetalWork B22R
engine. http://www.mwfly.it/index_file/B22RAERO.htm (I have no
connection with them).


aldo cernezzi
www.voloavela.it
  #7  
Old October 17th 12, 10:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BergfalkeIV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

Let's hope it may be revised in the future.

thanks,

Vassilios

BTW, the engine sounds like a good project.
  #8  
Old October 18th 12, 12:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,257
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

Pawnees rule!

Kirk
66

  #9  
Old October 18th 12, 09:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BergfalkeIV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

╬Ą╬Ě ╬*╬*╬╝¤Ç¤ä╬Ě, 18 ╬č╬║¤ä¤ë╬▓¤ü╬»╬┐¤ů 2012 2:52:48 ¤Ç.╬╝. UTC+3, ╬┐ ¤ç¤ü╬«¤â¤ä╬̤é kirk.stant ╬*╬│¤ü╬▒¤ł╬Á:

Pawnees rule!



Kirk

66



OK,

lets see how you happy you will be should fuel prices hit 12 $/gallon.

VM
  #10  
Old October 18th 12, 01:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,257
Default Qn: Italy, Ultralight aerotowing

As a tow pilot, I'm really leery of towing with an ultralight, especially heavy glass off grass on a rowdy day. It may cost more but its probably a lot safer - and more comfortable. If cost is the issue use a winch!

And if it doesnt have a tailwheel, forget about it! ;^)

Kirk
66
 




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