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#11
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You must also have a solo cross country flight of 150 miles total
distance, with three full stop landings and one segment between stops at least 50 miles long, per FAR 61.109(a)(5)(ii). This flight could be conducted at night if your instructor has signed you off for solo night flight, but few instructors will allow that and most students do the flight during the day The XC landings need to be full stop? Oops... |
#12
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"Bob Martin" wrote in message
... You must also have a solo cross country flight of 150 miles total distance, with three full stop landings and one segment between stops at least 50 miles long, per FAR 61.109(a)(5)(ii). This flight could be conducted at night if your instructor has signed you off for solo night flight, but few instructors will allow that and most students do the flight during the day The XC landings need to be full stop? Oops... I almost got that wrong too during my primary training. I made one stop for fuel, but at the second airport I'd planned to do a touch and go (as I'd done on my training XCs and my two practice solo XCs). I hadn't reviewed the appropriate regulation, and my instructor didn't catch the problem either during the pre-flight briefing. Luckily, for some reason, the tower was only able to accommodate full-stop landings at the time. --Gary |
#13
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I almost got that wrong too during my primary training. I made one stop for
fuel, but at the second airport I'd planned to do a touch and go (as I'd done on my training XCs and my two practice solo XCs). I hadn't reviewed the appropriate regulation, and my instructor didn't catch the problem either during the pre-flight briefing. Luckily, for some reason, the tower was only able to accommodate full-stop landings at the time. Well, mine was two and a half years ago... don't think it really matters anymore. And come to think of it, I never made a full-stop at a towered field either... so I don't know how to talk to ground (and haven't flown out of/landed at a towered field since the long XC in my training). |
#14
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Bob Martin wrote in message ...
Well, mine was two and a half years ago... don't think it really matters anymore. And come to think of it, I never made a full-stop at a towered field either... so I don't know how to talk to ground (and haven't flown out of/landed at a towered field since the long XC in my training). I can see how you could get by with a T & G on the cross-country, depending on how you logged it. In fact, full stop landings on the long XC have not always been required. When I did mine in '88, I did a T&G at one airport. Back then, the reg only required that you "land" at the other airports. I can't remember when it changed. I am surprised that you made it past the DE without 3 full-stop landings at a towered field. It's a clear requirement and they usually check those off on a checklist while going through your logbook. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) |
#15
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John Galban wrote:
Bob Martin wrote in message ... Well, mine was two and a half years ago... don't think it really matters anymore. And come to think of it, I never made a full-stop at a towered field either... so I don't know how to talk to ground (and haven't flown out of/landed at a towered field since the long XC in my training). I am surprised that you made it past the DE without 3 full-stop landings at a towered field. It's a clear requirement and they usually check those off on a checklist while going through your logbook. Well, I didn't mark t&g any differently than full-stop in the logbook... so he saw enough landings at the field, and probably figured they were full-stop (and had more important things to worry about than to ask). |
#16
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"Peter" wrote in message
... So my night flying was legal, in fact it was done fully IFR, mostly in IMC, because I can do that in the UK outside Class A with my night rating and IMC rating. Didn't you do a suitable cross-country for your night rating? Paul |
#17
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"Peter" wrote in message ... "Paul Sengupta" wrote So my night flying was legal, in fact it was done fully IFR, mostly in IMC, because I can do that in the UK outside Class A with my night rating and IMC rating. Didn't you do a suitable cross-country for your night rating? Not quite; the FAA night x/c needs to be 100nm total and can be either A-B-A (where A-B is 50nm in a straight line) or A-B (where A-B is 100nm in a straight line). I did do well over 100nm (dual) but not between suitably distant separate locations. It also needs 10 takeoffs and full stop landings all done during official night (called Civil Twilight in the USA). I think for the NR one needs just 5. Not many UK PPLs with the night rating will have done that particular combination as there is no need for it. I know for a fact that some US-based flying schools have accepted a *solo* night x/c flight, but due to lack of time to do this in the USA I am following the much more complicated and expensive UK based route and the few "methods" of doing it here won't accept this The establishment also refuses to accept any of my current 25 dual instrument hours towards the FAA IR 15-hr dual requirement (which any of the schools in Florida accepts OK) but that's another story... Peter. As I have said before my training for the night qualification done in Naples ensured that I did the necessary take offs and landing and cross country to meet the US requirements but also included the 5 solo take offs and landings required for the night qualification. Total time was 6.5 hrs. As far as the instrument time is concerned, get another training organisation if you can. The IMC rating training time is allowable towards the training requirement for the FAA/IR. The school is trying to stiff you for additional time. In theory you only need three more hours of training being signed off by a FAA CFII. The rest of the instrument time can be done with another PPL acting as your safety pilot whilst you practice approaches etc. The one thing IMC rated pilots seems to excel at despite the limited training we have to do is partial panel flying. My US instructor remarked to me that all his British IMC rated students were far better than average on partial panel. Mind you, most of my 15 hours was done on PP anyway. FWIW, the training done for the IMC renewal was also accepted. At the end of the day, I went to the US with 30 hours on instruments, over half being training for the IMC and the renewals, flew another 25 hours in simulated and actual IMC and passed the checkride. The DPE checked all the numbers with me and he was entirely satisfied. |
#18
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"Peter" wrote in message ... Peter Clark wrote Reading FAR/AIM 2004 it isn't entirely clear to me because different sections refer to day and night cross country, and I don't think the description of a day cross country applies to the night flight; the distances are 150nm and 100nm respectively. I have night flights with an instructor which exceed 100 miles in total distance, and I have a solo night flight which exceeds 100nm which was done between two airports whose direct line spacing is 119nm. I suspect that the information on the basis of which I did the last flight was bogus and I don't meet the FAA PPL requirement. Can anyone suggest the FAR/AIM 2004 sections which could clarify this? You want the FAR, 61.109(a), paragraphs 2 and 2(i) - "Except as provided in 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a single-engine airplane that includes (i) One cross country flight of over 100 nautical miles total distance; and (ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport." You meet the night cross country requirement with either flight listed above. There's no requirement for a solo night cross country of any distance in the regs. If you've done 10 night takeoffs and landings you meet the requirements for that part of the reg. The long solo cross-country (150nm) is 61.109(a)(5)(ii) - 150nm, 3 stops, one segment of which needs to be between 2 airports 50NM apart. If you happened to do this at night, great - the reg doesn't say it has to be done during the day, but the solo flight mentioned above doesn't count unless it was over 150NM (the 119NM apart meets the 50NM distance, but not the total flight distance and 3 landings). This generated quite a long thread, with a lot of people saying that "training" implies a flight with an instructor present. I wrote to the FAA with a full disclosure of my logbook entries. After a few months, they wrote back saying: Response (Joel Wilcox) - 01/04/2005 01:20 PM It appears that you meet the night experience requirements. However, you should review these times against the night experience requirements in 14 CFR 61.109(a)(2), which can be viewed he http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.1.2&idno=14 Regards, JW So, either they did read my question and are saying that doing the night flights solo was OK after all, OR they haven't read my question... It doesn't matter now, but I think one should get a better response time from the FAA. Peter. You have been over the ground on this one a few times Peter on this NG and the Flyer forum. You will not get a better response from the FAA. The responses that count are from FAA Counsel (the lawyers). You can ask 5 different FSDOs the same question and get five different answers/opinions. So what's new? Ever had a straight answer from the CAA? |
#19
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"Chris" wrote:
So what's new? Ever had a straight answer from the CAA? Christ!...finally someone who knows the English Language...so many supposedly 'English Speaking' people say "So what else is new?" (in abject error of course) -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) |
#20
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"Gord Beaman" wrote in message ... "Chris" wrote: So what's new? Ever had a straight answer from the CAA? Christ!...finally someone who knows the English Language...so many supposedly 'English Speaking' people say "So what else is new?" (in abject error of course) -- -Gord. It helps being English |
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