Running dry?

"RST Engineering" wrote:

Now, here's one for you. You reset your totalizer but the Line Goober used
an "auto off" nozzle that left you ten gallons short on a side. You run one
dry, but now your totalizer thinks you have twenty gallons more than you
have. Who now is the safe one? The one that timed a tank to see how long
it ran dry (and hence remaining time in the other one, since Goober probably
used the same technique on one tank as the other) or the one that relies on
the totalizer with about two hours less than calculated?

For mr that is a non-concern. I visually inspect each tank if I do
not fill it and any "shortfall" is well below my acceptable refueling
level anyway.

I like having a totalizer functionality.

Ron Lee

Jay Honeck wrote:

4. Measure your gas with your watch, never your fuel gauges.

Are those the little gauges on either side of the fuel pressure gauge
with needles that move from right to left as you as you fly? I thought
those measured how tired the plane was: make sure you land before they
all reach zero or the plane will take a nap.

I trust my fuel gauges like I trust the IRS to help me with my taxes.
They'll tell me when I'm in deep doo-doo, but they won't keep me from
getting there.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"Madness has no purpose. Or reason. But it may have a goal."
-- Star Trek: Spock, "The Alternative Factor"

"Mark T. Dame" wrote in message
...

I trust my fuel gauges like I trust the IRS to help me with my taxes.
They'll tell me when I'm in deep doo-doo, but they won't keep me from
getting there.


Luv it! Can I quote you on that?

"john smith" wrote in message
.. .
Chris Colohan wrote:
2. Couldn't you calibrate
your gages by filling the tanks, going for a flight, then sticking a
ruler into the tank to see how much is left? Is running the tank dry
any more accurate or useful?

If only it were that simple!
Fuel tanks are of various shapes and sizes.
Linear measurements apply only to tanks with flat sides, tops and bottoms.
I can tell you that on some airplanes, if you look in the filler neck
and see it within an inch of the top, you can still get 10 or more
gallons into it.

It also depends on how the plane is parked. A couple of degrees left or
right, nose up or down can make a huge difference. That fact also plays
havoc with the fancy fuel measuring do dads. Just like navigation, never
rely on a single method of fuel management.

Roy Smith wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

If the flight is longer than an hour, we will then run the tips in 15 minute
increments. (Or 10, or 20 -- whatever it takes to keep them even when we
arrive at our destination.) In our plane, having 17 gallons WAY out at the
end of the wing means that you had better keep things balanced, or you're
gonna be flying tipped at an angle pretty quickly!

If I understand what you're saying, you always take off with the tips
filled, even for a short flight. If that's the case, aren't you hauling
200 lbs of fuel around all the time that you don't really need? If your
mains give you (I'm guessing here) 4 hours endurance, and you're planning a
1 hour flight, I would think having 3 hour reserve would be more than
enough for even the most conservative pilot.

If you're flying an older C-6 with tip tanks, your usable load is about
1500lbs. Even with all four tanks full, you can still put four 200lbs
adults in the cabin and not have much trouble unless it's a really hot
day and the runway is really short (2000). Even then, with flaps, you
can do it quite safely even on a short runway.

Now, if you're talking about something without the trucking capacity of
the original C-6, then you need to think about it. The newest in the
C-6 line (Saratoga HP) has at least 300lbs less useful load. Depending
on options, it could be as little as 1000lbs. With 102 gallons of fuel
capacity, you have to start thinking about trading fuel for cargo.

But the point was "why would you fly with your tip tanks full on a short
flight". The answer is: because if your plane can handle it, why not?
Or, put another way, why dump fuel if you don't have to. But this
obviously varies by the equipment used.


It sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong), that if you're making a 1:20
flight, you'll run 0:30 on one main, 0:30 on the other, 0:10 on one tip,
0:10 on the other tip, then switch back to one of the mains for landing?

The C-6 POH recommends burning from the mains first. I've heard a lot
of different opinions on the "correct" way to manage fuel in the C-6,
but unless you intentionally run a tank dry, I don't think any one way
is much better than another. (-:


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it's still a foolish
thing."
-- Bertrand Russell

In article , RST Engineering wrote:
Now, here's one for you. You reset your totalizer but the Line Goober used
an "auto off" nozzle that left you ten gallons short on a side. You run one
dry, but now your totalizer thinks you have twenty gallons more than you
have.

This assumes you are stupid enough to set your totalizer based on what
the Line Goober said rather than checking the tanks yourself.

Does this relate to the problem at hand anyway? If the Goober'ed tank
is the last one you switch to you are going to be a glider anyway.

(Pulled that last one right past the stick

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:42:31 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:


IMHO, proper fuel management means never even coming *close* to running a
tank dry, let alone doing it intentionally.

And how do you know how much fuel you really have in your tanks?

It seems simpler, and safer, to figure this out by running the tanks dry,
at least once, than to trust the manufacturer's numbers.

Wouldn't it be safer (maybe not simpler) to just drain the tank on the
ground to find out?


In my case, I
have about four gallons less than the published numbers which is 1/2 hour
at economy cruise which is VFR reserves.

That's very important to know, but I still think that find out from the
safety of the hangar would be the best choice.

I find it very interesting that the "run the tanks dry occasionally"
group uses the argument that it is is about safety: knowing exactly how
much fuel your tank(s) hold. If they are truly interested in the
safety, it would seem to me that they would perform that operation on
the ground with a pony pump, some rubber hose, and a couple of clean 50
gallon drums (or a lot of clean buckets/gas cans).

The only two reasons I can see for intentionally running a tank dry are
to accurately determine your fuel flow (which doesn't really help you
since it's after the fact) or to extend your range to the absolute
maximum, which comes back to whether or not that's a good idea.
Personally, I think it's foolish since at worst, refueling adds an hour
to your trip and the break to stretch your legs helps prevent fatigue on
really long trips.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"OK, who stopped the payment on my reality check?"

Well, after reading probably 100 posts in this thread over the past couple
of days, I've got a question to put to you all. What is the chance that
you run a tank dry and the switch to the other tank, only to discover that
you had a collision with a tree on takeoff and the other tank (along with
half the wing which contained it) was torn right off the airplane, and you
never noticed. Then you'd be in deep doo-doo, right?

What is this lunatic talking about, you ask? I'm talking about...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005380500,00.html

Oh, goodie two-shoes.

Mr. Lee, what brand of aircraft do you fly? Pipers where you can just open
the fuel cap and looksee? Or Cessnas where you have to drag the ladder back
after Gomer has put it away and look?

And what are you looking for? In a lot of aircraft with reasonable
dihedral, a quarter of an inch up or down the filler neck is 8 gallons or
so. Can you calibrate your eyeball that well? In wind? With the airplane
on a slope?

Sorry, no buy.

Jim



"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...


For mr that is a non-concern. I visually inspect each tank if I do
not fill it and any "shortfall" is well below my acceptable refueling
level anyway.

I like having a totalizer functionality.

Ron Lee

Not if you look at your gauges to the full tank, see that it has gone down
to quarter tanks an hour before you expected it to, and start looking around
for a long straight stretch of concrete with gas pumps at one end.

Jim



"Doug Carter" wrote in message
. net...

Does this relate to the problem at hand anyway? If the Goober'ed tank
is the last one you switch to you are going to be a glider anyway.

(Pulled that last one right past the stick