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#31
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 12/26/06 05:49, Sam Spade wrote: C J Campbell wrote: On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 15:26:46 -0800, Sam Spade wrote (in article ): Or you could have circled-to-land following the normal VFR pattern for the airport since the weather was VFR. Circle-to-land needs to be modified to conform to local traffic expectations when the weather is good. Why? Most towers expect you to circle at the circling minima. They will tell you if they want you to do something else. Why do you think they would expect you to disregard local traffic pattern and perhaps noise abatement procedures when the Class D surface area is VFR? Because you're flying a practice IAP. If it is a training flight I would certainly make it clear with them before I descended to the circling MDA (assuming here that it is significantly lower than standard traffic pattern altitude). That was done by asking to fly the approach, and getting the (practice) clearance from ATC and them handing the flight off to the tower. At least at the towers I've practiced at, they've expected me to fly the circling maneuver, and they've accommodated it as necessary. After all, the circling maneuver is part of what I want to practice. If it is an airport you're familiar with, and you have no doubt they accept it, fine. There are a lot of noise sensitive airprots, at least in my area, where it is presumed you will follow the traffic patterns in use and established noise abatement procedures when the place is VFR. If uncertain, it is follow to descent to 450 feet, HAA without a very clear understanding. |
#32
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Mark Hansen wrote:
On 12/26/06 07:46, Jose wrote: You are on the LOC rwy 16 approach and (because you reached the MDA close to the MAP) you are in a position in which you are to too high to make a safe landing. Wind precludes landing on rwy 34. Is it legal to circle to land all the way round to rwy 16 provided you remain in the CTL protected area? I would say yes, so long as you are above the circle-to-land minima. Remember, they are usually higher than a straight-in. I presume you were expecting to land straight in and thus descended to the straight-in MDA. Now, suppose you did that... would it be legal to climb to the circle MDA and circle all the way around? I don't see why not, so long as you remain visual. The regs say that if you're below the minimum, you must execute a missed approach. If you're below the circling minima when you decide to execute the circle maneuver, then you must execute the missed approach. Now, if you say you climbed back up to circling minima and *then* decided to execute the circling maneuver, you'd be lying and it would be obvious. If the winds really did preclude a landing on 34, shouldn't you have known that before flying the ILS to minimums? The regulation is written for flight conditions less than minimums. Like I said, if he had the flight visibility for circling he would be quite legal in doing what he proposed. And, the gears were shifted to an NPA for the question. |
#33
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Jose and Mark
I forgot to mention that I assumed that either circling minimums were equal to staright-in LOC minimums or for whatever reason, the aircraft did not descend below circling minimums at any time. Mark The Pilot in this example was not shooting the ILS 34 but the LOC-16. He finds himself seeing the runway to high to land on 16. Hope this clarifies the situation. I once did a CTL at the end of a VOR app on a very convective rainy night. I made the runway but the Lear behind couldn't and missed. Should I have been in the previously described situation I would have rather done the 360 circling than going back into that s..t again. Mark Hansen wrote: On 12/26/06 07:46, Jose wrote: You are on the LOC rwy 16 approach and (because you reached the MDA close to the MAP) you are in a position in which you are to too high to make a safe landing. Wind precludes landing on rwy 34. Is it legal to circle to land all the way round to rwy 16 provided you remain in the CTL protected area? I would say yes, so long as you are above the circle-to-land minima. Remember, they are usually higher than a straight-in. I presume you were expecting to land straight in and thus descended to the straight-in MDA. Now, suppose you did that... would it be legal to climb to the circle MDA and circle all the way around? I don't see why not, so long as you remain visual. The regs say that if you're below the minimum, you must execute a missed approach. If you're below the circling minima when you decide to execute the circle maneuver, then you must execute the missed approach. Now, if you say you climbed back up to circling minima and *then* decided to execute the circling maneuver, you'd be lying and it would be obvious. If the winds really did preclude a landing on 34, shouldn't you have known that before flying the ILS to minimums? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#34
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
fcoav8r wrote:
Jose and Mark I forgot to mention that I assumed that either circling minimums were equal to staright-in LOC minimums or for whatever reason, the aircraft did not descend below circling minimums at any time. Mark The Pilot in this example was not shooting the ILS 34 but the LOC-16. He finds himself seeing the runway to high to land on 16. Hope this clarifies the situation. And, if he has the required flight visibility for circle-to-land minimums, and has not yet reached the MAP, he can climb tp the circle-to-land MDA, then cirle to land, provided he still has the require flight visibility and has sight of the airport. |
#35
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
"Stan Prevost" wrote in message ... I'm not sure why JAN approach was giving you landing instructions. Shouldn't that be left for the HKS tower, after approach control had sequenced you in for the approach? JAN approach wasn't giving him landing instructions, they were giving him circling instructions. Circling instructions are part of the approach clearance. |
#36
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Stan Prevost" wrote in message ... I'm not sure why JAN approach was giving you landing instructions. Shouldn't that be left for the HKS tower, after approach control had sequenced you in for the approach? JAN approach wasn't giving him landing instructions, they were giving him circling instructions. Circling instructions are part of the approach clearance. If you would read the thread you would find out that was resolved several days ago. |
#37
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Cleared for the ILS 16 or circle to land 34 question?
Sam Spade ha escrito: And, if he has the required flight visibility for circle-to-land minimums, and has not yet reached the MAP, he can climb tp the circle-to-land MDA, then cirle to land, provided he still has the require flight visibility and has sight of the airport. I believe you're right on the spot Sam. So when shooting an ILS I memorize also the LOC and CTL minimums in anticipation of plan B or C. Happy New Year |
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