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#21
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Becker vs Microair
I have a Mircoaire Rev N radio in my glider, purchased as a "Gllider Kit"
kit with mic, speaker, and wiring harness from Aircraf Spruce. It has worked fine for me. Folks report my transmissions are clear and strong, as long as my glider is not pointed straight at them (antenna in trailing edge of rudder, most of which is carbon fiber). I mentioned it was specifically a "glider kit" since the modulation has been fine. Our club has another Mircoaire Rev N in a 1-26 that works fine, but has had to have the mic gain adjusted. If battery voltage is gets low, the transmission does seem to get garbled. I fly with 2 batteries so I can switch a fresh one in late in the day if needed to get good radio transmission. John Scott |
#22
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Becker vs Microair
When I asked about XCOM, it was not because of price. In fact in the US
the cost is on par with a Becker and definitely well above a Microair. I simply wanted to know if others out there use them and found them to be reliable. As for ATR radios, the ATR720C in my Ka6E has worked well. The ATR57 in my Ka6BR has not been reliable. Now the ATR57 in a friend's Elfe appears to work well for him. My 57 was an early version and they may be more problematic. Whenever I get the 57 back from the shop, I will need to decide whether to keep it or trade it out. I do want to keep the small package with a circular, panel mount. ...... Neal Bruce wrote: ATR600 and ATR833 have a remote head capability. I understand that if cheap is the requirement then the Microair or XCom may be worth looking at. Based on what I saw - the eagerness of nearly every microair owner I met to move their radio on at an attractive price, caveat emptor... Personally I find it impossible to remember what all the frequencies are - given there are 9 of them I program in what I need if I move to a different location. We have relatively uncomplicated airspace so I have never felt a need for even the full 9. Neal Pfeiffer wrote: Does anyone have any experience with the newer XCOM radio? I had a demo at Oshkosh and it looked logical with reasonable performance and power draw. It also has a repeater head, which would be nice for my two-seater. Given all of the comments in this thread, its obvious that reliablity is a key concern. - from someone with an unnamed brand radio in for repair for that last 11 months, but that's another story - ..... Neal Dixie Sierra wrote: I've decided to give up on my Avionic Dittel and buy new. It's been a good radio and has given many years of service, but I'd like some new functionality. Functionality is really at the heart of my dilemna. I've kind of narrowed things down to Becker vs Microair (I've ruled out Walter Dittel on price... everyone has a limit independent of reason). There seems to be a broad consensus that the Becker is a more reliable choice. However, the Microair seems to offer a number of superior features. 1) Remote operation from a stick mounted toggle. 2) Dual scan beteween the active and standby freqs with the ability to transmit on the active. (Becker also offers a scan option but it seems to be cover far more freqs and the freqs covered can only be changed by turning the radio off and on at least twice. Dual scan seems very nice when flying XC in the vicinity of an active airport.) 3 Alpha descriptions of saved freqs. 4) Variable squelch (Becker has this, but not without turning the radio off and on at least twice to make changes.) So here I am... The Microair costs less and has "better" features. But who cares if it doesn't work? What to do? What to do?.. I think I'll fly with the handheld! What am I missing? I'm sure there are many cosniderations that escape me. Doug |
#23
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Becker vs Microair
"Neal Pfeiffer" wrote in message news When I asked about XCOM, it was not because of price. In fact in the US the cost is on par with a Becker and definitely well above a Microair. I simply wanted to know if others out there use them and found them to be reliable. As for ATR radios, the ATR720C in my Ka6E has worked well. The ATR57 in my Ka6BR has not been reliable. Now the ATR57 in a friend's Elfe appears to work well for him. My 57 was an early version and they may be more problematic. Whenever I get the 57 back from the shop, I will need to decide whether to keep it or trade it out. I do want to keep the small package with a circular, panel mount. ..... Neal I have one of the very early ATR 57s. It set around the shop for about four years while I was restoring my HP-14. When it was finally installed, it had problems. It was sent back to the factory (not a inexpensive process) and was upgraded. As Brian mentions, there are times I miss transmissions if my squelch is set too high and there is background hiss if it isn't. Counting the ART 57's original cost plus the repair cost, I could have had a new Becker and a few extra dollars in my pocket. Wayne HP-14 "6F" http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder |
#24
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Becker vs Microair
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:16:47 -0600, Bill Daniels wrote:
I have a Microair and, as long as you feed it 11.5V, it works fine. Up and down the flightline it seems that every radio brand has it's share of problems. Gliders are a harsh environment for complex electronics. Be thankful radios work at all. Has anybody tried putting a solid state DC-DC converter in the Microair's power supply? Devices exist that can easily supply a constant voltage in the range 12-14v at whatever current the radio requires, even when the battery drops to 10v. It seems to me that these devices could solve many of the problems people have discussed on r.a.s when attempting to run electronics designed for 12-14v off an SLA. The main drawback would appear to be a slightly reduced battery life because the conversion won't be 100% efficient. A side effect is likely to be that the radio will work OK until the battery is completely drained, at which point it will suddenly drop out; a voltmeter upstream of the converter might be useful. As an example of what these converters can do, I installed a T&B about a year ago. Its a powered aircraft type designed for a 28v supply which has been fitted with a solid state DC-DC converter to step up the voltage. As a result it runs happily off 12v. Maxim sell a huge range of DC-DC converter chips for step-up and step- down use. These handle currents of at least 2 amps: maybe higher, but I haven't needed anything more so haven't looked. A low-power example is the MAX666, which supplies 5v at 40 mA from an input in the range 2-16v. Disclaimer: I have no connection with Maxim. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#25
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Becker vs Microair
"Martin Gregorie" wrote in message ... On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:16:47 -0600, Bill Daniels wrote: I have a Microair and, as long as you feed it 11.5V, it works fine. Up and down the flightline it seems that every radio brand has it's share of problems. Gliders are a harsh environment for complex electronics. Be thankful radios work at all. Has anybody tried putting a solid state DC-DC converter in the Microair's power supply? Devices exist that can easily supply a constant voltage in the range 12-14v at whatever current the radio requires, even when the battery drops to 10v. It seems to me that these devices could solve many of the problems people have discussed on r.a.s when attempting to run electronics designed for 12-14v off an SLA. The main drawback would appear to be a slightly reduced battery life because the conversion won't be 100% efficient. A side effect is likely to be that the radio will work OK until the battery is completely drained, at which point it will suddenly drop out; a voltmeter upstream of the converter might be useful. As an example of what these converters can do, I installed a T&B about a year ago. Its a powered aircraft type designed for a 28v supply which has been fitted with a solid state DC-DC converter to step up the voltage. As a result it runs happily off 12v. Maxim sell a huge range of DC-DC converter chips for step-up and step- down use. These handle currents of at least 2 amps: maybe higher, but I haven't needed anything more so haven't looked. A low-power example is the MAX666, which supplies 5v at 40 mA from an input in the range 2-16v. Disclaimer: I have no connection with Maxim. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | Good idea, Martin. I've looked (not very throughly) for one that would output 13.8V (typical regulated voltage in "12V" aircraft systems) from something like 6 - 18V input. I'd like 95% efficiency but most are ~85%. It would also me nice to have one with a low voltage cutoff on the input side that would prevent damage to the battery from deep discharge. I suspect most gadgets would work better with regulated voltage. |
#26
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Becker vs Microair
Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:16:47 -0600, Bill Daniels wrote: I have a Microair and, as long as you feed it 11.5V, it works fine. Up and down the flightline it seems that every radio brand has it's share of problems. Gliders are a harsh environment for complex electronics. Be thankful radios work at all. Has anybody tried putting a solid state DC-DC converter in the Microair's power supply? Devices exist that can easily supply a constant voltage in the range 12-14v at whatever current the radio requires, even when the battery drops to 10v. Does the Dittel FSG 2T have one of these? It is advertised to work at 9 volts, and my experience is that it continues to work fine even when the voltage during transmission is below 10 volts (and the vario is going crazy due to low voltage). A point not totally unrelated to this thread -- I believe the FSG 2T uses flash memory, and thus doesn't have an internal battery that will have to be replaced. Do other radios have this feature? It seems to me that these devices could solve many of the problems people have discussed on r.a.s when attempting to run electronics designed for 12-14v off an SLA. The main drawback would appear to be a slightly reduced battery life because the conversion won't be 100% efficient. A side effect is likely to be that the radio will work OK until the battery is completely drained, at which point it will suddenly drop out; a voltmeter upstream of the converter might be useful. As an example of what these converters can do, I installed a T&B about a year ago. Its a powered aircraft type designed for a 28v supply which has been fitted with a solid state DC-DC converter to step up the voltage. As a result it runs happily off 12v. Maxim sell a huge range of DC-DC converter chips for step-up and step- down use. These handle currents of at least 2 amps: maybe higher, but I haven't needed anything more so haven't looked. A low-power example is the MAX666, which supplies 5v at 40 mA from an input in the range 2-16v. Disclaimer: I have no connection with Maxim. |
#27
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Becker vs Microair
Greg Arnold wrote:
Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:16:47 -0600, Bill Daniels wrote: I have a Microair and, as long as you feed it 11.5V, it works fine. Up and down the flightline it seems that every radio brand has it's share of problems. Gliders are a harsh environment for complex electronics. Be thankful radios work at all. I suspect airplanes are worse than gliders; after all, there is no vibration, no spikes on the voltage supply, and likely less heat under the panel (no engine heat and less electronics producing heat). The wring installation may be worse, typically. TSO'd radios have to meet some very stringent electrical, mechanical, and environmental requirements, so I expect them to work almost perfectly in a glider. Has anybody tried putting a solid state DC-DC converter in the Microair's power supply? Devices exist that can easily supply a constant voltage in the range 12-14v at whatever current the radio requires, even when the battery drops to 10v. Does the Dittel FSG 2T have one of these? It is advertised to work at 9 volts, and my experience is that it continues to work fine even when the voltage during transmission is below 10 volts (and the vario is going crazy due to low voltage). TSO'd radios (like the FSG 2T) have been required to work in the 9-10 volt range (at reduced power output) for about 20 years. They may use a DC-DC converter to achieve this, but I don't know which ones do. Some of radios obviously do, such as the Becker 4401 transponder, as they have wide range power supplies that also work up to 30 volts or so, while the power input remains constant. The Microair isn't TSO'd, so it doesn't have to meet this low voltage operation spec (nor does it claim to), which likely explains why there are reports of low voltage operation problems. It might benefit from a converter, if it has problems above 11 volts. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4 * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
#28
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Becker vs Microair
At 19:18 16 August 2008, Wayne Paul wrote:
"Neal Pfeiffer" wrote in message news When I asked about XCOM, it was not because of price. In fact in the US the cost is on par with a Becker and definitely well above a Microair. I simply wanted to know if others out there use them and found them to be reliable. As for ATR radios, the ATR720C in my Ka6E has worked well. The ATR57 in my Ka6BR has not been reliable. Now the ATR57 in a friend's Elfe appears to work well for him. My 57 was an early version and they may be more problematic. Whenever I get the 57 back from the shop, I will need to decide whether to keep it or trade it out. I do want to keep the small package with a circular, panel mount. ..... Neal I have one of the very early ATR 57s. It set around the shop for about four years while I was restoring my HP-14. When it was finally installed, it had problems. It was sent back to the factory (not a inexpensive process) and was upgraded. As Brian mentions, there are times I miss transmissions if my squelch is set too high and there is background hiss if it isn't. Counting the ART 57's original cost plus the repair cost, I could have had a new Becker and a few extra dollars in my pocket. Wayne HP-14 "6F" http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder I had a Becker 3201 radio and Becker 4401 xpndr in my Ventus for 6 years (they are still there, I think, new owner). They both worked flawlessly in all kinds of temperatures at altitudes from sea level to above 20K. In both cases I spent a few extra bucks to have a professional make up the wiring harness for me. Basically all I had to do was hook up two wires for power. Also, a good antenna installation is a must. The Becker ran on a 12 volt battery and I had flights up to 6 hours in length with the radio going strong...xmit & receive (granted I don't talk much on the radio). I got many comments from others about how clear and strong my transmissions were heard over the air..."airline" quality. JLH |
#29
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Becker vs Microair
On Aug 16, 8:18*am, Dixie Sierra wrote:
2) Dual scan beteween the active and standby freqs with the ability to transmit on the active. (Becker also offers a scan option but it seems to be cover far more freqs and the freqs covered can only be changed by turning the radio off and on at least twice. Dual scan seems very nice when flying XC in the vicinity of an active airport.) I might be wrong but I don't think that the Microaire has dual scan. It has active and standby freqs but you have to manually toggle between them. Otherwise it has what you say that Becker has, scanning all the channels in memory. Here is a quote from the manual; Mode Switch - Scan Mode - By holding down the toggle switch for 3 seconds, the M760 goes into scan mode. The programmed memories are cycled quickly across the display. The M760 checks each memory in turn for any signal. If there is no signal the radio moves to the next programmed memory. When a signal is detected, the scan locks to that memory to receive the signal. This memory is held for 10 seconds after the signal finishes to afford the user an opportunity to reply on that memory channel. The user can stop the scan operation by pressing down briefly the toggle key, or the PTT button. |
#30
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Becker vs Microair
At 08:39 16 August 2008, Pete Startup wrote:
Buy an ATR500 from Funkwerk(ex-Filser) in Germany. Reasonable price,excellent quality and IT WORKS FAULTLESSLY! I too had an early Microair and have been scarred for life. Pete I have had the same experience with my ATR500 (purchased in Jan 07). Very happy with it and the slim electrec microphone (both supplied by LX avionics in UK). Microair was an alternative but I erred on the side of reliability rather than the cheapest. Gavin Std Cirrus, CNN now G-SCNN, #173 LSV Viersen, Keiheuvel, Belgium |
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