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Chicken Cannon Lovers



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 19th 04, 11:52 PM
Peter Kemp
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On or about Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:28:37 +0000, Alan Lothian
allegedly uttered:

In article , Keith Willshaw
wrote:


Hmmm, I suspect when dealing with a kg of water it makes a
big difference to the fan blades if that water is frozen
in a single lump.


Indeed. Strange to relate, more windscreens are smashed by hailstones
than by raindrops.


Hailstones can get rather larger than raindrops. In the various
updrafts within stormclouds the raindrops grow until they reach a size
at which they're too unstable in the airflows and fission into smaller
drops, hail just keeps growing until the updrafts can't keep them up.

I've never been hurt by rainfall, but one short shower of 1" hail left
me very battered, slightly dazed, and in need of a large drink and a
quiet lie down.

I'd be interested to know what experiments, if any,
the programme did in order to reach its conclusions. Obviously they are
quite correct about kinetic energy and momentum, but transfer of
momentum operates in many different ways depending very much on the
nature of the materials in which the transfer occurs.


I have to admit I missed the show and will keep an eye out for the
inevitable rerun as it would be one I'd like to see.
---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - Drink Faster
  #22  
Old January 20th 04, 12:20 AM
Zamboni
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"John Lansford" wrote in message
news
Ogden Johnson III wrote:

Given the number of times the infamous "chicken cannon" has come
up in these fora, your attention is directed to this [Sunday]
evening's episode of "Mythbusters" on the Discovery cable channel
[8:00 PM ET, repeated at 11:00 PM ET for the left coast] in which
the intrepid Mythbusters team takes on the chicken cannon.


I worked for a time at Arnold Air Force Station, Tennessee, where the
USAF tests airframes, rockets and missiles in both scale and full size
test cells. One of the tests involved firing chickens into windshields
of aircraft at simulated flight speeds.

The chicken gun exists. I've seen it in operation in fact.

I live a few blocks from Boeing's chicken gun. No idea if they're using
fresh or frozen.
--
Zamboni


  #23  
Old January 20th 04, 01:41 AM
Jim E
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"Zamboni" wrote in message
...

"John Lansford" wrote in message
news
Ogden Johnson III wrote:

Given the number of times the infamous "chicken cannon" has come
up in these fora, your attention is directed to this [Sunday]
evening's episode of "Mythbusters" on the Discovery cable channel
[8:00 PM ET, repeated at 11:00 PM ET for the left coast] in which
the intrepid Mythbusters team takes on the chicken cannon.


I worked for a time at Arnold Air Force Station, Tennessee, where the
USAF tests airframes, rockets and missiles in both scale and full size
test cells. One of the tests involved firing chickens into windshields
of aircraft at simulated flight speeds.

The chicken gun exists. I've seen it in operation in fact.

I live a few blocks from Boeing's chicken gun. No idea if they're using
fresh or frozen.


I live in Everett Wa near a fair size Boeing plant.
Wonder if we have a gun locally?


Jim E


  #24  
Old January 20th 04, 01:54 AM
John Mianowski
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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:52:01 -0500, Peter Kemp
peter_n_kempathotmaildotcom@ wrote:

On or about Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:28:37 +0000, Alan Lothian
allegedly uttered:

In article , Keith Willshaw
wrote:


Hmmm, I suspect when dealing with a kg of water it makes a
big difference to the fan blades if that water is frozen
in a single lump.


Indeed. Strange to relate, more windscreens are smashed by hailstones
than by raindrops.


Hailstones can get rather larger than raindrops. In the various
updrafts within stormclouds the raindrops grow until they reach a size
at which they're too unstable in the airflows and fission into smaller
drops, hail just keeps growing until the updrafts can't keep them up.

I've never been hurt by rainfall, but one short shower of 1" hail left
me very battered, slightly dazed, and in need of a large drink and a
quiet lie down.

Indeed. We had a hailstorm here (near Dallas, TX) last summer that
was so loud I couldn't hear the baseball game on TV. When it stopped,
I went outside & picked up some 2-1/2" dia. hailstones off my lawn! I
can't imagine getting hit by one!

JM


  #25  
Old January 20th 04, 02:05 AM
Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal
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On 1/19/04 4:52 PM, in article ,
"Peter Kemp" peter_n_kempathotmaildotcom@ wrote:


I'd be interested to know what experiments, if any,
the programme did in order to reach its conclusions. Obviously they are
quite correct about kinetic energy and momentum, but transfer of
momentum operates in many different ways depending very much on the
nature of the materials in which the transfer occurs.


I have to admit I missed the show and will keep an eye out for the
inevitable rerun as it would be one I'd like to see.
---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - Drink Faster


I watched a portion of Myth Busters where the two knuckleheads tried to
debunk the "explosive decompression" phenomenon in the movies. You get the
picture. Gun goes off in plane. Fuselage rips open and 6-8 passengers, in
flight meals, luggage, and an unsuspecting flight attendant fly into the
atmosphere.

They pressurized a bone-yarded fuselage with a huffer and used a remote
control .45 to shoot out windows and fuselage to see if a large hole would
expand out the small starter hole.

Results: Small holes stayed small and made hissing noises.

Conclusion: Myth. Busted.

They failed, however, to introduce a 300/.78 slipstream into the equation,
but I doubt it would have changed the result.

Point being that these guys seem to make some critical assumptions that
*might* affect the results. I didn't see the whole show, but I don't
remember them ever addressing the lack of slip stream.

--Woody

  #26  
Old January 20th 04, 02:57 AM
Dale Farmer
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Peter Kemp wrote:

On or about Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:28:37 +0000, Alan Lothian
allegedly uttered:

In article , Keith Willshaw
wrote:


Hmmm, I suspect when dealing with a kg of water it makes a
big difference to the fan blades if that water is frozen
in a single lump.


Indeed. Strange to relate, more windscreens are smashed by hailstones
than by raindrops.


Hailstones can get rather larger than raindrops. In the various
updrafts within stormclouds the raindrops grow until they reach a size
at which they're too unstable in the airflows and fission into smaller
drops, hail just keeps growing until the updrafts can't keep them up.

I've never been hurt by rainfall, but one short shower of 1" hail left
me very battered, slightly dazed, and in need of a large drink and a
quiet lie down.

I'd be interested to know what experiments, if any,
the programme did in order to reach its conclusions. Obviously they are
quite correct about kinetic energy and momentum, but transfer of
momentum operates in many different ways depending very much on the
nature of the materials in which the transfer occurs.


I have to admit I missed the show and will keep an eye out for the
inevitable rerun as it would be one I'd like to see.
---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - Drink Faster


There was a hailstorm in Texas several years ago during a large outdoor
festival of some sort. Couple of folks maimed, lots hospitalized, millions
of
dollars in property damage. ( Broken glass, totaled cars, roof damage. )

--Dale


  #27  
Old January 20th 04, 03:46 AM
gizmo-goddard
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"Dale Farmer" wrote in message
...


SNIPPED

There was a hailstorm in Texas several years ago during a large

outdoor
festival of some sort. Couple of folks maimed, lots hospitalized,

millions
of
dollars in property damage. ( Broken glass, totaled cars, roof damage. )


IIRC, that was in Fort Worth during an outdoor Mayfest thing.

__!_!__
Gizmo


  #28  
Old January 20th 04, 03:57 AM
Eugene Griessel
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John Lansford wrote in message . ..
Jim Herring wrote:

They're results were that a frozen chicken did no more damage than a
room temperature chicken. They assumed a lot about impact damage with
faulty data and testing.


They should let me hit them with a frozen chicken and a thawed one and
tell me which one hurt more.


If you hit them at about 100 m/s I doubt they will be around to tell
you which
one hurt more. Dive into your swimming pool from the edge and then try
hitting it at 400 mph and see if you feel a difference. Tis the
velocity not the softness of the substance that hurts!

As someone else pointed out, the frozen
one is going to act like a solid mass, while the thawed one is going
to "explode" and deform when hitting the windshield.


At the speed of a modern fighter I doubt either case is going to leave
one unscarred. I read somewhere that even if the plexiglass holds out
the "wave" travelling through the canopy caused by the strike could
seriously injure/incapacitate a pilot.
  #29  
Old January 20th 04, 05:11 AM
WaltBJ
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Here's some bird and ice impacts for you.
One of my cadet classmates flying a Piper PA18 in primary at Hondo
Texas hit a hawk - it came right through the windshield, alive and
clawing. He wrung its neck and threw it into the rear. He still has a
scar on his cheek.
When I was at Homestead AFB 76-80 we had three buzzard strikes at Avon
Park Range. Two hit the airframe and one hit the left quarter panel of
the windshield. All strikes were when the F4s were doing 500K on low
level weapons deliveries. The airframe strikes penetrated the fuselage
skin around the intakes but no serious damage (other than a hole) was
done. The windshield strike filled the cockpit with buzzard pieces and
guts and disabled the front seater as most of the buzzard hit his
shoulder. The rear seater was a pilot and landed the F4 at Avon park
making an arrested engagement so the front seater could get immediate
medical attention. He was dazed and his shoulder was severely bruised
and he was half-nauseated from the buzzard guts but he recoverd
quickly. A maintenance crew came up and repaired the F4 and another
crew flew it back home.
I was with Air Florida when one of our DC9s lunched an engine. 'Blue
ice' from a leaking forward lavatory drain finally broke loose and the
airflow carried it up over the wing and right into the engine intake.
JT8Ds don't like large lumps of ice, regardless of color. BTW had
anyone else noted the tabloids don;t carry stories about 'blue ice'
from alien space any more?
Walt BJ
  #30  
Old January 20th 04, 05:11 AM
WaltBJ
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Posts: n/a
Default

Here's some bird and ice impacts for you.
One of my cadet classmates flying a Piper PA18 in primary at Hondo
Texas hit a hawk - it came right through the windshield, alive and
clawing. He wrung its neck and threw it into the rear. He still has a
scar on his cheek.
When I was at Homestead AFB 76-80 we had three buzzard strikes at Avon
Park Range. Two hit the airframe and one hit the left quarter panel of
the windshield. All strikes were when the F4s were doing 500K on low
level weapons deliveries. The airframe strikes penetrated the fuselage
skin around the intakes but no serious damage (other than a hole) was
done. The windshield strike filled the cockpit with buzzard pieces and
guts and disabled the front seater as most of the buzzard hit his
shoulder. The rear seater was a pilot and landed the F4 at Avon park
making an arrested engagement so the front seater could get immediate
medical attention. He was dazed and his shoulder was severely bruised
and he was half-nauseated from the buzzard guts but he recoverd
quickly. A maintenance crew came up and repaired the F4 and another
crew flew it back home.
I was with Air Florida when one of our DC9s lunched an engine. 'Blue
ice' from a leaking forward lavatory drain finally broke loose and the
airflow carried it up over the wing and right into the engine intake.
JT8Ds don't like large lumps of ice, regardless of color. BTW had
anyone else noted the tabloids don;t carry stories about 'blue ice'
from alien space any more?
Walt BJ
 




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