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#21
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Exceeding M1.0 in either the Sabre or the Dog was no big deal. You
just pointed them straight down from 40+ and didn't fight it if it wanted to roll around .95(flap rigging, usually). Question: didn't Edwards get boomed when Welch went supersonic? Walt BJ |
#22
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On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:24:21 GMT, "Matt Wiser" wrote:
Was this the same George Welch who flew a P-40 out of Halewia, Oahu on the morning of 7 Dec 41, killing pair of Vals, a Kate and a Zero, before being a P-38 ace in SWPA? IIRC he was KIFA in a F-100 in the mid 1950s. Yes, this was the same lunatic. LOL Welch was credited with 4 kills at Pearl Harbor and his wingman (Taylor) swears that Welch got another two that crashed out to sea. His wingman shot down another two and damaged several others. Between them, they accounted for 6 kills, two prabables and several damaged. That's nearly 21% of all Japanese combat losses at Pearl (as much as 28% if you counted the two probably shot down). Later while flying P-39Ds, Welch shot down three more fighters (one sortie) bringing his score up to seven. After he transferred to the 8th FG flying P-38s, he added nine more before a life-threatening case of malaria sent him home. Welch is one of only a handful of American fighter pilots that scored kills in three different fighter types. Every time Welch shot down any Japanese aircraft, he got at least 2, and killed 4 on two occasions. His peers believed that had he not become deathly ill, he would have challenged, and possibly even outpaced Bong and McGuire in total victories. As it was, Hap Arnold set up an interview for Welch with North American. Some believe that this was his way of making up for Welch not getting the CMoH due to someone in the chain of command disapproving the recommendation because Welch took off without specific orders. Arnold was incensed with Squadron CO Maj Gordon H. Austin, but it seems Austin probably approved the recommendation. Although bounced back to CONUS, Austin was given command of a P-40 outfit that he took to North Africa where he shot down 3 enemy aircraft while flying more than 100 combat hours. Later Austin commanded the 319th BG (a B-26 outfit) where he logged another 115 hours. In 1944 he was transferred stateside where he served in many posts until he retired as a highly decorated Major General in 1966. If he is still alive, he would be 90 years old. It's likely that someone in the USAAF command structure at Pearl Harbor gave Welch the deep six. Who that was is unknown to me. My regards, Widewing (C.C. Jordan) http://www.worldwar2aviation.com http://www.netaces.org http://www.hitechcreations.com |
#24
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On 23 Sep 2003 07:47:41 -0700, (Walt BJ) wrote:
Exceeding M1.0 in either the Sabre or the Dog was no big deal. You just pointed them straight down from 40+ and didn't fight it if it wanted to roll around .95(flap rigging, usually). Question: didn't Edwards get boomed when Welch went supersonic? Walt BJ It certainly did! Prior to heading back to North American to debrief with the engineers, Welch telephoned a friend that he had briefed the day before about what to be listening for. Excitedly, his friend related that they had been nearly blown out of bed by a terribly loud ba-boom. The time was noted and it corresponded to George's dive. Major General Joseph Swing heard the boom and reported it to Stu Symington. Hundreds of others heard it too. Many wives ran outside looking for the tell-tale plume of smoke indicating a crash, but there wasn't any smoke to see. Ask any of the NAA guys (or the Bell crew as well) who were there at the time. Welch's boom was quite loud, far more so than Yeagers would be (which makes sense when you consider that Welch was diving towards the base, whereas Yeager was in level flight at higher altitude). My regards, Widewing (C.C. Jordan) http://www.worldwar2aviation.com http://www.netaces.org http://www.hitechcreations.com |
#25
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(Corey C. Jordan) wrote:
On 23 Sep 2003 05:53:00 GMT, (DunxC) wrote: By the way, the "damage" was the result of a design fault in the nose gear extension mechanism, not a result of excessive speed on climbout. The damage was caused by fast retraction of the nose gear on take-off (because of the weak cylinder against building airspeed); the solution to that one was to fit a restrictor in the hydraulic 'up' line. Any other problems were linked to, but not the cause of, the damage. The NAA logs are quite detaioled on this. Duncan According to Roy Ferrin, the actuator was replaced with one having a larger diameter piston, and the door linkage was adjusted to close a tad sooner. I can't see how a flow restrictor in the line will compensate for a lack of force resulting from inadequate pressure area. If you want more push for a given hydraulic pressure, you need a larger cylinder. My regards, Widewing (C.C. Jordan) They likely had to cause the NG to retract fast originally because as mentioned the cyl was weak and they needed to get the gear up before the airspeed had built up too far. That's what I gather from the writeup above. Problem likely was that, although the restrictor would reduce the speed of the retraction, it seems reasonable that it would combat the purpose of the fast retraction. Seems reasonable to fit a more powerful jack as they did. -- -Gord. |
#26
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"Corey C. Jordan" wrote in message ... On 22 Sep 2003 09:55:54 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote: The USAF likes to cover up everything and they are very good at it. But answering your question- an emphatic "No" will suffice. It was the Luftwaffe that broke Mach 1 back in the closing days of WW2. Check out the Wright Patterson Official Manual on Flying the Me-262 (circa 1946). It says that the Me-262 can break the sound barrier in a shallow dive. So either one of the captured 262s flown by a US pilot broke Mach 1 or the information came from German sources in 1945. Anyway, the official manual precedes Yeager's official flight- fact. There's a small problem with this myth. At speeds beyond Mach 0.88, the Me 262 begins shedding major components, wings and such. But Corey, you lied about Copp, so why would anyone at ram ever believe you again? |
#27
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There's a small problem with this myth. At speeds beyond Mach 0.88, the Me 262 begins shedding major components, wings and such. But Corey, you lied about Copp, so why would anyone at ram ever believe you again? How about me? I don't know Copp from Copralite, but I _know_ that the Me 262 was a subsonic airframe with subsonic engines. Gordon |
#28
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"Gordon" wrote in message ... There's a small problem with this myth. At speeds beyond Mach 0.88, the Me 262 begins shedding major components, wings and such. But Corey, you lied about Copp, so why would anyone at ram ever believe you again? How about me? I don't know Copp from Copralite, but I _know_ that the Me 262 was a subsonic airframe with subsonic engines. Hey, how are you doing Gordon. I don't doubt what you know, I just see no purpose to parrots. |
#29
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Hey, how are you doing Gordon. Doing better every day - thanks for asking. I don't doubt what you know, I just see no purpose to parrots. Sorry, I just get upset when I see folks posting chaff about one of the very few subjects that I feel qualified to comment upon. I don't know what Rob's garage looks like, but mine is packed chest high with file boxes from BAMA and NARA, loaded with little but Me 262 documents. I know Rob loves his subject, but I wish he'd take the extra step of trying to verify what he posts, instead of saying, "I read it in ONE book, so its carved in stone." I've yet to see him respond to any of the specific points I raise, concerning the engine nacelle shape, pilot names, etc., but I guess I am ****ing him off by simply not agreeing that the 262 is somehow capable of supersonic flight. It isn't, and he has no ability to prove it was. You want to know something odd? That pilot's manual, with its subtle reference to supersonic characteristics, is one of the first books I ever owned (I had the older Aero publications version). That paragraph really got me going and because of it, I asked every jet pilot I could find if it were possible. Its one of the questions that sent me off on 20+ years of researching the Me 262. Strange to see that old book, and its single reference, leading someone else down a blind corridor. The real problem is that he will not have the benefit of first hand information, from people who were there, to draw from to help him form an informed opinion on the matter. Gordon |
#30
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"Gordon" wrote in message ... Hey, how are you doing Gordon. Doing better every day - thanks for asking. I don't doubt what you know, I just see no purpose to parrots. Sorry, I just get upset when I see folks posting chaff about one of the very few subjects that I feel qualified to comment upon. Well ya' know, I have had my fill of kook trolls. I know I was probably as guilty as anyone for supporting the Shafer kook troll, but at some point it gets a little rediculess. I mean, I know Bon-Myer and Myer, they once asked to be my friends. Lately though, we still have Willshaw quoting the Shafer kook troll on grape vines; and at the same time denying a big part of San Juaquin Valley history. |
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