In wave, in blue hole at cloud level, hole closes, in IMC, then what?

Have you looked at FAR 61.57 ?

"
(6) Maintaining instrument recent experience in a glider.

(i) Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person must have performed and logged at least the following instrument currency tasks, iterations, and flight time, and the instrument currency must have been performed in actual weather conditions or under simulated weather conditions--

(A) One hour of instrument flight time in a glider or in a single engine airplane using a view-limiting device while performing interception and tracking courses through the use of navigation electronic systems.

(B) Two hours of instrument flight time in a glider or a single engine airplane with the use of a view-limiting device while performing straight glides, turns to specific headings, steep turns, flight at various airspeeds, navigation, and slow flight and stalls.

(ii) Before a pilot is allowed to carry a passenger in a glider under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, that pilot must--

(A) Have logged and performed 2 hours of instrument flight time in a glider within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight.

(B) Use a view-limiting-device while practicing performance maneuvers, performance airspeeds, navigation, slow flight, and stalls.
"


So there is at least some FAA framework for glider IFR.

Todd Smith
3S

I certainly would not "depend" on basic IFR training for an inadvertent excursion into the clouds, but it should be part of the quiver of skills and preparation. Most training single engine aircraft are very stable and will re-establish level flight if you take your hands off the controls. Try the IFR training in a MD 500, that is rather thrilling

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 9:45:57 PM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
It sounds as though deliberate cloud flying of gliders is much more common in the UK

What do you think of depending on basic IFR training in Single Engine Light aircraft as preparation for inadvertent emergency cloud flying in a glider?

Does anyone in the UK offer glider cloud flying training for visiting USA licensed glider pilots?

Does anyone know the history of glider cloud flying in the USA? Was it ever allowed under FAR?

Was the prohibition part of the negotiation that allowed the XPNDR exemption for gliders?

If it were allowed, would it play out any differently in the USA than it has in the UK?

Did Lucky Chucker has an AH over Reno? Was he current with IFR? Did he practice IFR in his glider?

If it were allowed under the FARs, I think people would have proper instruments installed and training in motor gliders would be available in the USA.

Installing instruments that you're not allowed to use without declaration of an emergency is a rather odd state of affairs.

I hope any alert and better-informed readers will correct any errors of fact
which may follow, but here's my non-anally-informed input...

Does anyone know the history of glider cloud flying in the USA? Was it
ever allowed under FAR?

A comment regarding the trailing question above...the FARs/CFRs don't
prescribe what is possible, rather what is impossible (by regulation). If it
ain't forbidden, it's legal...even if perhaps not the wisest of acts.

Yes, cloud flying was legal at one time for gliders in the U.S. My
casually-educated guess is it became - for all practical purposes - illegal
after the 1955 mid-air between a DC-7 and a Constellation over the Grand
Canyon, after which the guts of today's ATC became the regulation of the
land...assigned IFR cruising altitudes, continuous radar contact, etc.

Johnny Robinson was probably the first U.S. glider pilot to become proficient
on instruments inside convective clouds, and at one time it wasn't rare to
(legally) go after diamond altitude climbs inside towering cu. Robinson once
essentially doubled the score of the pilot in 2nd place in a Wichita Falls
(working from memory) contest during a moist spell; as the only
instrument-capable pilot in that contest, he told me he spent the bulk of the
contest running out the side of one cu into the next, several thousands of
feet above cloud base.
- - - - - -

Was the prohibition part of the negotiation that allowed the XPNDR
exemption for gliders?

Transponders came along later.
- - - - - -

If it were allowed, would it play out any differently in the USA than it
has in the UK?

Now THERE's an open-ended question...!
- - - - - -

Did Lucky Chucker has an AH over Reno? Was he current with IFR? Did he
practice IFR in his glider?

Indeed inquiring minds would like to know. As (so it's my belief) an ex Thud
driver, I'd expect him to have been quite instrument proficient once upon a
time, but the devil is in the details...
- - - - - -

Bob W.

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 8:14:03 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
Does anyone know the history of glider cloud flying in the USA? Was it ever allowed under FAR?

Was the prohibition part of the negotiation that allowed the XPNDR exemption for gliders?

If it were allowed, would it play out any differently in the USA than it has in the UK?

Did Lucky Chucker has an AH over Reno? Was he current with IFR? Did he practice IFR in his glider?

If it were allowed under the FARs, I think people would have proper instruments installed and training in motor gliders would be available in the USA.

Installing instruments that you're not allowed to use without declaration of an emergency is a rather odd state of affairs.

My father, Stan Smith, installed an AH from a WWII German bomber in his Schweizer 1-21. During the 1957 Nationals, which he won, he flew most of the way from Harris Hill to Syracuse in wave & in cloud. Soon after he took off, it started pouring at Harris Hill. 1 or 2 other pilots managed to glide just far enough to make it a contest day. I have Dad's log books, in which he regularly noted his cloud-flying time.

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 6:14:03 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
Does anyone know the history of glider cloud flying in the USA? Was it ever allowed under FAR?

Was the prohibition part of the negotiation that allowed the XPNDR exemption for gliders?

If it were allowed, would it play out any differently in the USA than it has in the UK?

Did Lucky Chucker has an AH over Reno? Was he current with IFR? Did he practice IFR in his glider?

If it were allowed under the FARs, I think people would have proper instruments installed and training in motor gliders would be available in the USA.

Installing instruments that you're not allowed to use without declaration of an emergency is a rather odd state of affairs.

IFR in gliders is not 'prohibited' in the USA. Rather than use the word "prohibited" it is more correct to say IFR in gliders is "impractical".

As with any aircraft, a glider must be equipped for the proposed flight and the pilot must have an instrument rating and be current (and competent) on instruments. With that in place, one can legally go into clouds as long as it is with an IFR flight plan.

For IFR in gliders, I've been told by the FAA that a pilot must have an airplane instrument rating plus 3 hours logged under a hood with a CFII in a glider and an endorsement from that CFII.

from a regulatory fashion, i fail to see how airplane/instrument applies to gliders. they are different categories of aircraft.

furthermore, even if airplane/instrument rating did apply to gliders, there are a host of regulatory issues: could only be in Class G (otherwise one would have to file and activate a flight plan and be in 2-way communications with ATC), and the aircraft would have to satisfy 91.205 and be certificated for IFR flight. these are only a few of the regulatory impediments that came immediately to mind.

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 2:44:41 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
For IFR in gliders, I've been told by the FAA that a pilot must have an airplane instrument rating plus 3 hours logged under a hood with a CFII in a glider and an endorsement from that CFII.

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 2:44:41 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:

IFR in gliders is not 'prohibited' in the USA. Rather than use the word "prohibited" it is more correct to say IFR in gliders is "impractical".

Putting the FARs aside for a moment, is it otherwise practical to equip/train a glider/pilot to descend through a cloud deck in Class G in a Lee Wave related emergency? That's a much lower bar than unrestricted IFR Cloud Flying.

FAR 91.205

(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:

(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.

(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:


(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in Sec. 121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with Sec. 29.1303(g) of this chapter.


(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.

(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.

(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.

(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).

(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).

I'm glad that my article has even one more reader, if for no other reason to highlight the need to avoid having to use tools to get out of such an absolutely frightening and dark place. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it...

My only add is that when it comes to actually being in the moment, the challenge is to maintain focus while your emotional side is talking, nay screaming louder and louder in your head. Mind you, I had absolutely no training and no instrument to help, so of course, it was a helluva cold start.

So as others have stated, practice with the instrument and do so in open, clear air to start. The emotional side will still yell at you, you'll just accommodate...