Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

Morgans wrote:
"kontiki" wrote


Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.


********************************

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

What does economic education have to do with leaning about a hopelessly
screwed up justice system have to do with the price of beans in China? That
seems like it would be a government-social studies failure, if anything.

Is a government school responsible for you not being able to proof read your
posts? It must be, to write "tso they don't have a clue."

I just lost a bit of respect for you. I thought you were smarter than to
play a blame game like you showed in a post like this.
Nah Jim,

He's got it right. Let's go back to a system where only the wealthy got
an education and put everyone else to work at 12. That should fix the
problem!

Margy

Matt Whiting wrote:
Morgans wrote:

"kontiki" wrote

Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.


********************************

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the
students, and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not
motivated to learn.

What does economic education have to do with leaning about a
hopelessly screwed up justice system have to do with the price of
beans in China? That seems like it would be a government-social
studies failure, if anything.


Blaming the schools alone isn't legitimate, but they certainly have been
a significant contributor. Public schools long ago moved from a
"personal responsibility" to a "self-esteem" based approached that has
been disastrous and is a significant contributor to many of society's
problems today.

No longer can schools punish students as it is either illegal or will
harm the students' self-esteem. When a student fails a class, we blame
everyone but the student and find a way to move them along anyway. I
know you have public school connections (your wife as I recall), but the
reality is that public schools HAVE contributed to this phenomenon of
sending subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, messages that nothing is
YOUR fault it is the fault of the "system", and don't worry as the
"system" will take care of you anyway.

Matt
It's not the schools its the parents. I've seen parents come in to find
out why the TEACHER made a mistake and Johnny got a B. The parent went
to the principal to complain. In an unbelievable act the principal
actually defended the teacher. In addition teachers have a common name
for many science fair projects. They are called "daddy-dos". In a
system where parents attack teachers if the kids do poorly you can
hardly blame the teachers. Maybe the schools for not telling the
parents off, but if you tell the parents off the school budget doesn't
get passed.

Margy

Margy

This "Everyone is equal" teaching really gets in the way of your
supremist slant.

Sorry, it's the "everyone is equal" slant that has caused so much
uproar in America's schools, with the "No Child Left Behind" (NCLB)
initiative. This is the approach that treats all children equal,
without regard to ability or aptitude, and penalizes schools that do
not achieve test averages without regard to these abilities or
aptitude.

Given the wide disparity between children and their abilities, this
egalitarian treatment has caused a great deal of controversy. On the
one hand, I appreciate the fact that -- for the first time in MY
lifetime -- teachers are being held to a real standard. On the other
hand, punishing a school when special-needs kids don't pass the
standardized test seems ludicrous.

Of course, the inevitable bureacratic response to this standardized
test will be a "dumbing down" of the requirements. THAT is the
problem I see with NCLB, and has nothing to do with any kind of
"supremist slant".

Luckily, this can be easily "over-written" with proper parenting
skills.

Jay, you Uber Parent you! Tell us more about how bitchen you are.

As usual, your attitude is getting in the way of conversation. I
suggest less coffee.

Too many parents aren't aware
of (or don't care about) this subtle undercurrent in the schools that,
over time, has produced a society of lazy, sue-happy "it's not my
fault!" people.

Here is that "Everyone education is flawed" thing again. This comes
uip in many of your posts. Can you not accept that others might have
opinions other than your own?

Of course. It's called "conversation" -- you might try it sometime.
It's fun!

Universal education is the glue that holds society together, and more
is always better -- for everyone. However, schools that treat all
kids exactly the same, regardless of ability or aptitude, is a recipe
for disaster.

Both Kontiki's point about inbred schools creating a less-than-optimal
society and Jim's point about not blaming the schools for everything
are entirely valid, even though they seem to conflict in many ways.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony litigations are so frequent and so costly, there is a
very good chance that the legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a lawsuit are often looked at in the
same jaundiced eye by the public as the phony cases and true justice can suffer.

This has been going on for a very long time! Sue McDonalds because you spilled coffee on your lap?

This is a perfect example. Upon closer examination, the McDonalds case
does have merit. But people don't examine it more closely, because of
their jaundiced eye. (There's an earlier thread about this, though I
doubt it's easy to find based on subject line... though neither will
this one be).

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Ah, I see Number One Son was signed into google on this computer.
Sorry about the confusion -- the opinions expressed here were mine,
not his!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I applaud you if your parental time and effort paid off exactly the way
you planned it. But not everyone in the generation of "lazy, sue-happy
'it's not my fault' people" are the result of parents who "aren't aware
or don't care" or who didn't teach their kids about work ethics or give
them a moral compass. Some people of that mindset had parents who were
just as aware, cared just as much, and worked just as hard to teach,
educate, and guide their kids. They simply don't *all* take the path
(even in their thinking) we would choose for them.

Absolutely true -- and I didn't imply otherwise. I've seen kids with
the best upbringing turn to crap, and I've seen kids with the worst
upbringing turn to gold. There are no guarantees with children, and
the "jury is still out" on mine.

I've always said that my son will either grow up to become a brilliant
criminal mastermind, or a great philanthropist -- there's no way of
knowing at this point!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Except for the fact that the passengers were all skydivers, skydiving had
nothing to do with the accident. An unfortunate title for the thread.

Bob Gardner

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
C J Campbell wrote:
The parents of Bryan Jones, a 34 year old Microsoft engineer who was one
of nine skydivers killed in the crash of a Cessna Caravan, are suing
Cessna. The Caravan was returning from Star, Idaho, to Shelton,
Washington. The parents are alleging that the Cessna Caravan was
defective and should not have been flying in icy weather. The airplane is
not certified for flight into known ice, although the plane in question
did have boots.

So, Cessna is being blamed because a pilot may have operated the plane in
direct contradiction to the aircraft flight manual and warnings in
Cessna's operating instructions.

If this is true, you are viewing what has become one of the prime reasons
associated with the virtual end of General Aviation as at least I knew it
for the first 25 years I was involved in aviation.
It's the trial lawyers. They will go after anything and everything with
deep pockets involved in an accident. They operate in conditions like
these on the premise that REGARDLESS of the appropriate and inappropriate
actions of a pilot, if one screw was out of place on the aircraft itself,
the manufacturer can be litigated for financial gain.
In many cases, it is my understanding that manufacturers simply "settle"
the suits rather than defend them based upon specific lawyers reputations
for their ability to sway juries.
It's nothing but sheer extortion in the majority of the cases.

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony litigations
are so frequent and so costly, there is a very good chance that the
legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a lawsuit are
often looked at in the same jaundiced eye by the public as the phony cases
and true justice can suffer.
The lawyers can be "congratulated" for literally destroying not only GA,
but for the most part, the publics' faith and dependence in a true and
honest justice system.

--
Dudley Henriques

This has been going on for a very long time! Sue McDonalds because you spilled coffee on your lap? Sue Parker because
the pilot followed a failing gyro into the ground? This is not new news, and the sheep in the USA simply eat it up,
because maybe, just maybe, their ticket will come in and they, too, can hit it big! It is the lotto mentality that is
dragging us down. No wonder there are so many jobs available for the immigrant worker; many americans simply don't think
they need to do a hard days work, and that they are entitled to a better life without doing the work...

Well put, I have been amazed at how many people seem to think that
they can become millionaires happily sipping coffee at the bookstore
and watching the value of their homes go up 20% each year! Now that
the bubble has burst there are many who think that the government
should come to their rescue!

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:30:56 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote:


It's not the schools its the parents. I've seen parents come in to find
out why the TEACHER made a mistake and Johnny got a B.

My wife's a dedicated teacher. I hear it every day. 8^(

On Dec 1, 8:03 pm, Peter Clark
wrote:
Caravans and icing aparantly have a probematic history, going back at
least to AD 2006-01-11R1 which required that additional boots on cargo
pods and handles to make upper wing inspection easier be isntalled,
plus various things I've read but can't recall where right now about
changes to icing procedures WRT minimum airspeeds etc.

There's been an AD against the Caravan for more than a year
(2006-06-06) that was recently superseded by 2007-10-15, perhaps
driven by this accident. It seems that it doesn't matter that ADs are
issued; they have to be modified or amended or superseded to make
people sit up and take problems seriously. The Caravan has long had a
history of poor ice performance and anyone flying one and staying
current with aviation should know that.

2007-10-15:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...7?OpenDocument

Dan