Alien training rule

Emily wrote:
That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.

My guess is that he didn't have a US certificate and he needed to take
an FAA checkride to gain US privs.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Emily wrote:
That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.

My guess is that he didn't have a US certificate and he needed to take
an FAA checkride to gain US privs.

-Robert

But he said he had a "US airline transport rating". Unless that means
something else...

Of course, I had a club try to make me produce my complex endorsement
once. It was locked in a safety deposit box out of state, and try as I
might, I couldn't convince them that because I was joining as a CFI
member, that meant I had a complex endorsement. I think sometimes the
people who make club/FBO rules have no grasp of the FARs.

Emily wrote:
You don't have to prove citizenship unless you're getting a new rating.

The FBO is allowed to make their own rental criteria. Being asked for
proof of citizenship is nowhere near as big of an issue as having to
pass a TSA approval process (which is what we were discussing)

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Emily wrote:
You don't have to prove citizenship unless you're getting a new rating.

The FBO is allowed to make their own rental criteria. Being asked for
proof of citizenship is nowhere near as big of an issue as having to
pass a TSA approval process (which is what we were discussing)

-Robert

You misunderstood. They claimed this was because of the TSA rule.
Clearly, the rule doesn't apply to rentals.

To get a full issue USA certificate, you do need to meet all
the details of part 61, including solo hours. But he could
not
have just gotten a USA PPL with IR based on his CA license
because he has a US certificate.
Adding an ATP cat/class rating is quick and easy, it is the
certificate that counts and not the
details in the logbook.

To add a class rating, an ATP needs no training if he does a
single engine ATP, can sign himself off.
ATP rotorcraft helicopter can add a ASEL ATP, no specific
time required.

§ 61.165 Additional aircraft category and class ratings.
(a) Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating. A
person applying for an airline transport certificate with a
rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating who holds an
airline transport pilot certificate with another aircraft
category rating must:

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
part;

(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
areas of §61.155(c) of this part;

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this part,
if appropriate;

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements
of §61.161 of this part; and

(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
§61.157(e)(4) of this part.

(b) Airplane category rating with a single-engine class
rating. A person applying for an airline transport
certificate with an airplane category and single-engine
class rating who holds an airline transport pilot
certificate with another aircraft category rating must:

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
part;

(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
areas of §61.155(c) of this part;

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this part,
if appropriate;

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements
of §61.159 of this part; and

(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
§61.157(e)(1) of this part.

(c) Airplane category rating with a multiengine class
rating. A person applying for an airline transport
certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class
rating who holds an airline transport certificate with
another aircraft category rating must:

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
part;

(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
areas of §61.155(c) of this part;

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this part,
if appropriate;

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements
of §61.159 of this part; and

(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
§61.157(e)(2) of this part.

(d) Powered-lift category. A person applying for an airline
transport pilot certificate ...






"Don Tuite" wrote in
message ...
| Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed
immigrant had to
| jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport
rating, but in
| helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted
to buy into
| the club and fly its pipers.
|
| He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL
training.
| What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the
solo hours
| as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of
fixed-wing hours in
| his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends,
and he'd
| always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said
those hours
| didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
|
| Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who
wanted the grief
| of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.
|
| Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like
childs' play.
|
| Don

Didn't say, but since he has an ATP he HAS already passed
the tests except for the actual checkride.

Oral and flight will do it. CFI not required, but
recommended.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message news:fqhtg.67549$ZW3.3870@dukeread04...
| To get a full issue USA certificate, you do need to meet
all
| the details of part 61, including solo hours. But he
could
| not
| have just gotten a USA PPL with IR based on his CA license
| because he has a US certificate.
| Adding an ATP cat/class rating is quick and easy, it is
the
| certificate that counts and not the
| details in the logbook.
|
| To add a class rating, an ATP needs no training if he does
a
| single engine ATP, can sign himself off.
| ATP rotorcraft helicopter can add a ASEL ATP, no specific
| time required.
|
| § 61.165 Additional aircraft category and class ratings.
| (a) Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating. A
| person applying for an airline transport certificate with
a
| rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating who holds
an
| airline transport pilot certificate with another aircraft
| category rating must:
|
| (1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
| part;
|
| (2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
| areas of §61.155(c) of this part;
|
| (3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this
part,
| if appropriate;
|
| (4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience
requirements
| of §61.161 of this part; and
|
| (5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
| §61.157(e)(4) of this part.
|
| (b) Airplane category rating with a single-engine class
| rating. A person applying for an airline transport
| certificate with an airplane category and single-engine
| class rating who holds an airline transport pilot
| certificate with another aircraft category rating must:
|
| (1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
| part;
|
| (2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
| areas of §61.155(c) of this part;
|
| (3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this
part,
| if appropriate;
|
| (4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience
requirements
| of §61.159 of this part; and
|
| (5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
| §61.157(e)(1) of this part.
|
| (c) Airplane category rating with a multiengine class
| rating. A person applying for an airline transport
| certificate with an airplane category and multiengine
class
| rating who holds an airline transport certificate with
| another aircraft category rating must:
|
| (1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
| part;
|
| (2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
| areas of §61.155(c) of this part;
|
| (3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this
part,
| if appropriate;
|
| (4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience
requirements
| of §61.159 of this part; and
|
| (5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
| §61.157(e)(2) of this part.
|
| (d) Powered-lift category. A person applying for an
airline
| transport pilot certificate ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Don Tuite" wrote
in
| message ...
|| Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed
| immigrant had to
|| jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport
| rating, but in
|| helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted
| to buy into
|| the club and fly its pipers.
||
|| He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL
| training.
|| What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the
| solo hours
|| as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of
| fixed-wing hours in
|| his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends,
| and he'd
|| always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO
said
| those hours
|| didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
||
|| Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who
| wanted the grief
|| of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.
||
|| Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like
| childs' play.
||
|| Don
|
|
|
|

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:03:25 -0500, Emily
wrote:

Don Tuite wrote:
Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
the club and fly its pipers.

He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.

That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.

Wasn't us. We were in awe. FAA. He wasn't licensed to fly fixed-wing
in the USA. Only had helicopter ATPs in the US and Canada. (He flew
Sikorskis and stuff. Helicopter logging, Installing radio towers,
water-bombing wildfires.)

Don

Don Tuite wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:03:25 -0500, Emily
wrote:

Don Tuite wrote:
Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
the club and fly its pipers.

He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.

Wasn't us. We were in awe. FAA. He wasn't licensed to fly fixed-wing
in the USA. Only had helicopter ATPs in the US and Canada. (He flew
Sikorskis and stuff. Helicopter logging, Installing radio towers,
water-bombing wildfires.)

Ok, I totally missed the helicopter thing the first time though.
Nevermind, I'm not confused anymore!

Emily wrote on 07/12/06 15:58:

Paul Tomblin wrote:
The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation
Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that validation is required for
training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or private pilot
certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
certificate?


My FSDO says yes, it's another rating. Then again, they might not know
what they're talking about.


Yup. That was what my FBO said when I inquired before becoming a citizen: any
new rating needs this.
As if I was any less trustworthy as Permanent Resident than as US citizen...

-Joe

a Canadian with a canadian fixed wing rating cannot fly a US regisistered
airplane
He needs should have just been able to get the US equivalent based on his
Canadian fixed wing rating.

The US ATP in helo would have no merit in this case.

BT

"Don Tuite" wrote in message
...
Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
the club and fly its pipers.

He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.

Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who wanted the grief
of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.

Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like childs' play.

Don