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Flaps on take-off and landing



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 14th 06, 06:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

At what point does one normally set flaps before take-off? I've been
doing it only when aligning with the runway, on the theory that
extending flaps prior to that would just make me more vulnerable to
wind while on the taxiway or at the gate. Similarly, I retract the
flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing,
so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to
do it?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #2  
Old September 14th 06, 07:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
jad
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Posts: 7
Default Flaps on take-off and landing


I generally extend flaps as I approach the holding point, stops the wind
grabbing you and better visibility all round (well for the Cessna)

As for retracting, I use them for a drag advantage to slow the aircraft
down and retract when I have full nosewheel steering control of the
aircraft!

This is real world, as for simulator.. just throw them down during the
taxy! Generally, airline drivers have flaps set prior to taxy after
pushback!


Jad


Mxsmanic wrote:
At what point does one normally set flaps before take-off? I've been
doing it only when aligning with the runway, on the theory that
extending flaps prior to that would just make me more vulnerable to
wind while on the taxiway or at the gate. Similarly, I retract the
flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing,
so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to
do it?

  #3  
Old September 14th 06, 08:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Duniho
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Posts: 774
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
At what point does one normally set flaps before take-off? I've been
doing it only when aligning with the runway, on the theory that
extending flaps prior to that would just make me more vulnerable to
wind while on the taxiway or at the gate. Similarly, I retract the
flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing,
so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to
do it?


It depends on the airplane and the pilot.

Personally, for the airplane I am flying the most, I have the flaps down
from preflight to takeoff. This is because the airplane requires flaps for
landings and takeoffs, there is only one "flaps down" setting, and I like
having the flaps down during the preflight as well. So I put the flaps down
before a landing, and they don't come up until after the next takeoff.

For Cessnas, which generally don't require flaps for takeoff, it's a
different matter. I lower the flaps for the preflight inspection so that I
can properly inspect the flap mechanisms, but then retract them after engine
start and before taxiing. Certain takeoffs may dictate lowering them again
prior to takeoff, which I do as part of my pre-takeoff checks, which include
reviewing the takeoff procedure checklist (flap setting is listed with the
checklist items for the takeoff itself).

Some pilots retract the flaps as soon as they touchdown, with the theory
that this will enhance their braking. However, IMHO this ignores the fact
that there is more aerodynamic braking with the flaps down early in the roll
out, and by the time the extra drag is negligible, so is any additional lift
the flaps might be generating. It also ignores the hazard in some airplanes
of accidently retracting the landing gear rather than the flaps.

Other airplanes run the gamut in terms of what's required or desired
operationally, and of course each pilot may have their own preferences as
well.

IMHO, since you're not actually flying an airplane, I wouldn't worry about
it. Put the flaps down whenever you want.

Pete


  #4  
Old September 14th 06, 08:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Thomas Borchert
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Posts: 1,749
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Mxsmanic,

Is this the correct way to
do it?


No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming.

For take-off, it is usually done as part of the "before take-off"
checklist, which is done at the holding point of the runway, but not on
the runway. You don't want to spend much time sitting on the runway.
Also, many planes do not require flaps for take-off.

For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch
while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often).
Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and
complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps.

Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If
the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't
fly.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #5  
Old September 14th 06, 09:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Flaps on take-off and landing


Thomas Borchert wrote:
Mxsmanic,

Is this the correct way to
do it?


No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming.

For take-off, it is usually done as part of the "before take-off"
checklist, which is done at the holding point of the runway, but not on
the runway. You don't want to spend much time sitting on the runway.
Also, many planes do not require flaps for take-off.

For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch
while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often).
Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and
complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps.

Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If
the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't
fly.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


In our club Cessna Cardinal I typically touch down, and set a nose high
attitude to get some aerodynamic braking going with the flaps down, as
soon as I feel the brake pedals have effect I'll set flaps to zero, by
the time the flaps are lifted about 15 degrees of deflection the
aerodynamic braking has become negligible and it's all in the pedals
(around 30 KIAS), also Hawai'i has some messed up winds, 0 knot winds
prevail from evening till morning while morning will have around 10
knot winds at 040, while the afternoon will have 15-ish gusting to
30-ish at 030 to 050, so having flaps down on the ground is a negative
because I've seen airplanes start flying halfway through their roll-out
after landing.

  #6  
Old September 14th 06, 10:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Tod Hennessy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

I agree and consider Flaps a "luxury", to be used only when necessary. Fly
the airplane...
wrote in message
ups.com...

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Mxsmanic,

Is this the correct way to
do it?


No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming.

For take-off, it is usually done as part of the "before take-off"
checklist, which is done at the holding point of the runway, but not on
the runway. You don't want to spend much time sitting on the runway.
Also, many planes do not require flaps for take-off.

For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch
while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often).
Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and
complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps.

Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If
the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't
fly.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


In our club Cessna Cardinal I typically touch down, and set a nose high
attitude to get some aerodynamic braking going with the flaps down, as
soon as I feel the brake pedals have effect I'll set flaps to zero, by
the time the flaps are lifted about 15 degrees of deflection the
aerodynamic braking has become negligible and it's all in the pedals
(around 30 KIAS), also Hawai'i has some messed up winds, 0 knot winds
prevail from evening till morning while morning will have around 10
knot winds at 040, while the afternoon will have 15-ish gusting to
30-ish at 030 to 050, so having flaps down on the ground is a negative
because I've seen airplanes start flying halfway through their roll-out
after landing.



  #7  
Old September 14th 06, 10:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Cubdriver
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Posts: 253
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:55:05 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Similarly, I retract the
flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing,
so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to
do it?


The first plane with flaps that I flew was a PA-18 Super Cub. When I
reached for the flap lever (it has a name, but I forget), what I got
was a rocket from my instructor in the back seat. "Don't touch
anything till you stop rolling!" Of course the PA-18 is a taildragger
and more sensitive to a pilot's inattention.

A year later I took Damian Delgaizo's bush-flying course in Andover
NJ. The plane was an Aviat Husky with a similar flap lever, and we
made much greater use of it. The splendid trick was to fly over a
cornfield (whatever) in ground effect, then dump the flaps as soon as
the mains crossed the threshold of the (grass) field, so that the
Husky stopped within 250 feet.

  #9  
Old September 14th 06, 11:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
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Posts: 2,070
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Johnson Bar


You can also use the flaps to "jump over" a fence or ditch
that you see at the last moment before a forced landing if
they are up for the glide.

But the flaps move the center of lift aft on the wing and
you need back elevator pressure to force the main gear
(trike) or tailwheel on the ground to prevent weather vaning
and skidding the wheels under braking. The flaps will tend
to lift the lift the tail and you need to follow through on
the flare to lever the balance point on the main gear.

A tailwheel airplane will use some forward elevator for a
wheel landing, but when the tail comes down [or is lowered]
you still need the stick full aft. Of course during taxi
you must use the ailerons and elevator to control for cross
and tailwinds.


"Cubdriver" usenet AT danford.net wrote in message
...
| On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:55:05 +0200, Mxsmanic

| wrote:
|
| Similarly, I retract the
| flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway
for landing,
| so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the
correct way to
| do it?
|
| The first plane with flaps that I flew was a PA-18 Super
Cub. When I
| reached for the flap lever (it has a name, but I forget),
what I got
| was a rocket from my instructor in the back seat. "Don't
touch
| anything till you stop rolling!" Of course the PA-18 is a
taildragger
| and more sensitive to a pilot's inattention.
|
| A year later I took Damian Delgaizo's bush-flying course
in Andover
| NJ. The plane was an Aviat Husky with a similar flap
lever, and we
| made much greater use of it. The splendid trick was to fly
over a
| cornfield (whatever) in ground effect, then dump the flaps
as soon as
| the mains crossed the threshold of the (grass) field, so
that the
| Husky stopped within 250 feet.
|


 




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