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Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 26th 20, 10:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Morgan[_2_]
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range


I have a number of flights with the Dynamis so far in the Nixus, but I don't feel that it is calibrated or working properly yet. Once we get it dialed in and can fairly evaluate it, I'll happily provide some feedback on using it, but so far the only feedback I can offer is that it is a much more complicated installation than just hooking up pitot, static and TE lines and therefore you've got more things to debug. Also not helped by the onset of winter and general lack of thermals for the last 4 months.

Morgan



On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 12:35:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Gary, Mike might have been testing the variometer, but I have not seen a single independent article on the performance of the variometer, therefore for me none of it exist. Supposedly a number of pilots are flying with these variometers in Australia, but they are not sharing their experiences.


Yes, it would be good to see some results and analysis.

Gary


  #32  
Old January 27th 20, 05:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 8:39:31 AM UTC-5, Jim Hogue wrote:

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board


From the translation of Air Avionics statement:

AIR Avionics wants to support interested parties and the open source community, gain further knowledge and software components.


One can dream that the Butterfly tech will find its way into Open Vario eventually.
  #33  
Old January 27th 20, 02:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Hogue
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Interesting that you mentioned this.

I built my Open Vario a couple of years ago with the sensor board, which includes all the normal pressure sensors plus all the necessary accelerometers for full motion measurements, with this in mind. I had great plans to code up the equations of motion, and use a kind of model following algorithm by Kalman filters to extract air mass data. Before retiring, I supervised a group of engineers who did essentially this to analyze flight test data for a fast jet program I worked on, it worked great. It is some pretty serious math, though, and I quickly found that it would take a whole lotta learning for this dimming mind to get this done solo. Plus the learning to code and implement into the OV, easier but still time needed. Plus the flight testing and development to get it to work right, this would take the most time and effort of all. Definitely could be done, though, I believe. Years of work probably.

I decided I ought to get some quality soaring in while I still can, so it has been back-burnered.

Anybody out there want to take on this sort of project with an OpenVario? I could pretty easily build another one for that purpose....

Cheers,
Jim J6
  #34  
Old January 27th 20, 11:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 4:28:40 PM UTC-5, Morgan wrote:
I have a number of flights with the Dynamis so far in the Nixus, but I don't feel that it is calibrated or working properly yet. Once we get it dialed in and can fairly evaluate it, I'll happily provide some feedback on using it, but so far the only feedback I can offer is that it is a much more complicated installation than just hooking up pitot, static and TE lines and therefore you've got more things to debug. Also not helped by the onset of winter and general lack of thermals for the last 4 months.

Morgan



On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 12:35:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Gary, Mike might have been testing the variometer, but I have not seen a single independent article on the performance of the variometer, therefore for me none of it exist. Supposedly a number of pilots are flying with these variometers in Australia, but they are not sharing their experiences.


Yes, it would be good to see some results and analysis.

Gary


Morgan, thank you for your post and please report back any new findings, most appreciated!
  #35  
Old January 28th 20, 12:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:20:58 AM UTC-5, Jim Hogue wrote:
Interesting that you mentioned this.

It is some pretty serious math, though, and I quickly found that it would take a whole lotta learning for this dimming mind to get this done solo. Plus the learning to code and implement into the OV, easier but still time needed. Plus the flight testing and development to get it to work right, this would take the most time and effort of all. Definitely could be done, though, I believe. Years of work probably.

One can dream that the Butterfly code will be Open Sourced if they don't find a buyer that wants to make a commercial retail product of it.
  #36  
Old January 28th 20, 08:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Tuesday, 28 January 2020 01:46:37 UTC+2, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:20:58 AM UTC-5, Jim Hogue wrote:
Interesting that you mentioned this.

It is some pretty serious math, though, and I quickly found that it would take a whole lotta learning for this dimming mind to get this done solo. Plus the learning to code and implement into the OV, easier but still time needed. Plus the flight testing and development to get it to work right, this would take the most time and effort of all. Definitely could be done, though, I believe. Years of work probably.

One can dream that the Butterfly code will be Open Sourced if they don't find a buyer that wants to make a commercial retail product of it.


Air Glide S ISU has 14 sensors in it. I doubt just a code will help you. Kind of sad that interest for this appeared the moment it was taken out of production.
  #37  
Old January 28th 20, 11:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Hogue
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Does anyone know exactly what the 14 sensors are in the Air Glide ISU? I will guess:

3 axis accelerations
3 axis rates
3 axis magnetometers
Static pressure
Total pressure
Total energy probe pressure (differential, actually redundant to Static and Total if you know or are willing to compensate for the aircraft’s position errors)
Outside air temperature
GPS

Please correct me if I have guessed wrong.

OpenVario with sensor board has most of these but lacks the GPS (but is routinely connected to FLARM etc.), OAT (input hardware for a probe exists but I am unaware of if it has ever been used), and the magnetometers (I am sure a magnetometer module could be designed or an existing one adapted to plug into one of the OV’s available input ports). With a bit more work, I think the OpenVario could host all the necessary sensors.

But of course, a huge task is to create a display which will pleasingly and effectively communicate the airmass information to the pilot so he can use it effectively. This by itself is a huge challenge. There are good ideas already in use out there, but I suspect improvements could be made.

Lots of challenging and interesting work to be done. Any takers?

Cheers,
Jim J6
  #38  
Old January 28th 20, 11:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Hogue
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Hmmmmm, I am tempted to talk to the Air Avionics folk at the upcoming SSA Convention. But the last thing I need is another big big big project....

Cheers,
Jim J6
  #39  
Old January 28th 20, 05:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 5:39:31 AM UTC-8, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6


The best Vario among the responders, too bad it is out of production.
  #40  
Old January 28th 20, 06:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Jim Hogue wrote on 1/28/2020 2:30 AM:
Hmmmmm, I am tempted to talk to the Air Avionics folk at the upcoming SSA Convention. But the last thing I need is another big big big project....


Here's smaller, related project with a quicker payoff: figure out the best ways to
use the Air Glide S for thermals, convergences, and finding wave; also, determine
what settings are needed to optimize it's performance. While you are doing this,
blog it, discuss it on the (not yet in operation) Glide S owners group, or add it
to the (not yet in operation) Glide S Operation website.

I'm not joking, because the Glide S manual barely covers the basics, and while
many of the owners use it very successfully, all that knowledge is not gathered in
one place where it's easy to access and discuss. Not only would it make the
instrument more valuable to us owners, but possibly, just maybe, it might rekindle
commercial interest in it. I'd be happy to help, and I already have stuff gleaned
from Fitch and others.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
 




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