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Rigging a Cherokee 6-300



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 4th 03, 02:45 AM
Dave
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Default Rigging a Cherokee 6-300

My maintenance shop rigged my control surfaces, at my request. The
plane 'seemed' to have been flying in a bank, despite having the AI
centered and DG on the same track.

They found that the flaps were the biggest culprits and adjusted them
accordingly.

When I flew it and took it up to cruise, the plane flew straight
without that 'banking' feeling. But, my rudder trim continues to be
pretty far right. With the rudder trim indicator in the middle, I
have to apply a lot of right rudder. Is this normal, or should I get
it to the point that I can have the rudder trim centered. On the
ground with the front wheel straight and the rudder trim in neutral,
the rudder is dead center, too.
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  #2  
Old October 4th 03, 03:02 PM
Jay Honeck
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When I flew it and took it up to cruise, the plane flew straight
without that 'banking' feeling. But, my rudder trim continues to be
pretty far right. With the rudder trim indicator in the middle, I
have to apply a lot of right rudder. Is this normal, or should I get
it to the point that I can have the rudder trim centered. On the
ground with the front wheel straight and the rudder trim in neutral,
the rudder is dead center, too.


What kind of rudder trim indicator is on a Six?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #3  
Old October 5th 03, 03:11 AM
Dave
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Default

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:vpAfb.35932$%[email protected]
When I flew it and took it up to cruise, the plane flew straight
without that 'banking' feeling. But, my rudder trim continues to be
pretty far right. With the rudder trim indicator in the middle, I
have to apply a lot of right rudder. Is this normal, or should I get
it to the point that I can have the rudder trim centered. On the
ground with the front wheel straight and the rudder trim in neutral,
the rudder is dead center, too.


What kind of rudder trim indicator is on a Six?


The same kind that's on a Cherokee - the knob to the right of the
emergency brake handle.
  #4  
Old October 5th 03, 02:44 PM
Jay Honeck
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Default

When I flew it and took it up to cruise, the plane flew straight
without that 'banking' feeling. But, my rudder trim continues to be
pretty far right. With the rudder trim indicator in the middle, I
have to apply a lot of right rudder. Is this normal, or should I get
it to the point that I can have the rudder trim centered. On the
ground with the front wheel straight and the rudder trim in neutral,
the rudder is dead center, too.


What kind of rudder trim indicator is on a Six?


The same kind that's on a Cherokee - the knob to the right of the
emergency brake handle.


Okay, well, if that's the case I don't understand the question. How do you
know that the rudder trim is "in neutral" when all you've got is a knob that
turns?

The only way I can tell my rudder trim is "in neutral" is by adjusting it in
flight until the ball is centered.

I suppose if you're counting the number of turns, lock to lock -- and
there's more turns from "neutral" one way than the other -- your A&P can
adjust the number of turns around the post for you? On the other hand,
what difference does it make, so long as you are able to adjust the trim
adequately so that the ball is centered?

Or are you concerned that the nosewheel pant is being cocked to the right
because you're having to adjust the trim too far one way or the other? This
could, I suppose, impart a turning force, given the size of the wheelpant --
but then the ball wouldn't be centered, would it?

For my money, if you're able to trim out the rudder forces adequately in all
flight regimes, the expense of adjusting the number of turns around the knob
isn't worth it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #5  
Old October 5th 03, 06:10 PM
Roy Smith
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Default

Ray Andraka wrote:
Jay, mine has a pointer on the top of the thing where the knob is.
The pointer moves forward and aft as you turn the knob. Mine's a '65
Six. I'm sure it can be adjusted, I just don't know the procedure.
Probably involves taking the trim screw assembly apart. Check the
maintenance manual.


My club bought an Archer a while ago which had screwed up rudder trim.
No matter what you did with the knob, you had to apply *left* rudder to
keep the ball in the center in cruise.

Various mechanics poked at it and couldn't fix it (didn't stop them from
billing us, though). We finally convinced one guy to actually take the
damn thing apart. Turns out some previous repair job had been botched
and the wrong part was in there. I don't remember the details, but he
got the right part and we were good as new. Before that, we were
starting to think of all sorts of crazy things like the wings were
screwed on crooked.

Rudder trim on a Cherokee is pretty simple. It's a jackscrew with some
springs pulling on the rudder bar. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist
to make it work right.
  #6  
Old October 5th 03, 06:15 PM
Ray Andraka
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Default

Jay, mine has a pointer on the top of the thing where the knob is. The pointer
moves forward and aft as you turn the knob. Mine's a '65 Six. I'm sure it can
be adjusted, I just don't know the procedure. Probably involves taking the trim
screw assembly apart. Check the maintenance manual.

Jay Honeck wrote:

When I flew it and took it up to cruise, the plane flew straight
without that 'banking' feeling. But, my rudder trim continues to be
pretty far right. With the rudder trim indicator in the middle, I
have to apply a lot of right rudder. Is this normal, or should I get
it to the point that I can have the rudder trim centered. On the
ground with the front wheel straight and the rudder trim in neutral,
the rudder is dead center, too.

What kind of rudder trim indicator is on a Six?


The same kind that's on a Cherokee - the knob to the right of the
emergency brake handle.


Okay, well, if that's the case I don't understand the question. How do you
know that the rudder trim is "in neutral" when all you've got is a knob that
turns?

The only way I can tell my rudder trim is "in neutral" is by adjusting it in
flight until the ball is centered.

I suppose if you're counting the number of turns, lock to lock -- and
there's more turns from "neutral" one way than the other -- your A&P can
adjust the number of turns around the post for you? On the other hand,
what difference does it make, so long as you are able to adjust the trim
adequately so that the ball is centered?

Or are you concerned that the nosewheel pant is being cocked to the right
because you're having to adjust the trim too far one way or the other? This
could, I suppose, impart a turning force, given the size of the wheelpant --
but then the ball wouldn't be centered, would it?

For my money, if you're able to trim out the rudder forces adequately in all
flight regimes, the expense of adjusting the number of turns around the knob
isn't worth it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759


  #7  
Old October 6th 03, 01:31 AM
Tom
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Posts: n/a
Default

"And what is neutral". Neutral on your indicator may not be neutral on your
rudder trim itself . Some aircraft are preset with a small amount of
deflection in the trim tab at neutral deflection on indicator. This might be
the whole problem if the A&P did not check the TCDS for proper settings when
he was rigging it.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Ray Andraka wrote:
Jay, mine has a pointer on the top of the thing where the knob is.
The pointer moves forward and aft as you turn the knob. Mine's a '65
Six. I'm sure it can be adjusted, I just don't know the procedure.
Probably involves taking the trim screw assembly apart. Check the
maintenance manual.


My club bought an Archer a while ago which had screwed up rudder trim.
No matter what you did with the knob, you had to apply *left* rudder to
keep the ball in the center in cruise.

Various mechanics poked at it and couldn't fix it (didn't stop them from
billing us, though). We finally convinced one guy to actually take the
damn thing apart. Turns out some previous repair job had been botched
and the wrong part was in there. I don't remember the details, but he
got the right part and we were good as new. Before that, we were
starting to think of all sorts of crazy things like the wings were
screwed on crooked.

Rudder trim on a Cherokee is pretty simple. It's a jackscrew with some
springs pulling on the rudder bar. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist
to make it work right.



  #8  
Old October 6th 03, 03:34 AM
Jay Honeck
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Posts: n/a
Default

Jay, mine has a pointer on the top of the thing where the knob is. The
pointer
moves forward and aft as you turn the knob.


By God, Ray, today Mary and I "discovered" the pointer you are talking
about! During a flight to Wisconsin today I mentioned your post to Mary --
and, with the autopilot working again, we had plenty of time to goof
around -- so we peered down at our ankles and played with the rudder trim
knob, and "found" the rudder trim pointer in the little oval cutout just
above the rudder trim knob.

Mind you, I've been flying Cherokees for over nine years now, of all flavors
and vintages, and have accumulated nearly 800 hours in them -- and I have
NEVER seen that pointer there before, nor has anyone ever mentioned it to
me. I suppose because it is of such limited value (the pointer moves up and
down, for gosh sakes -- what does THAT indicate in side-to-side rudder
trim?), and also because it is nearly invisible down there by your shins,
neither of us had ever noticed it before! (It doesn't help that our
indicator is painted black, instead of white like the rudder trim indicator.
I'm going to remedy that next time I've got the touch-up paint out.)

So, just when you think you know everything about your airplane, along comes
something like this. Next I'll discover that my gear is supposed to
retract, or sumpin'...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #9  
Old October 6th 03, 03:47 AM
Sven
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
So, just when you think you know everything about your airplane, along

comes
something like this. Next I'll discover that my gear is supposed to
retract, or sumpin'...


The gear 'might' retract if you have a really BAD landing... ;-)


  #10  
Old October 6th 03, 05:23 AM
blanche cohen
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Default

Jay:

The little indicator really doesn't go "up and down". The painted line
(which is probably faded by now) is a line drawn on the "corkscrew"
of the rudder trim knob. As you turn the knob, the bolt (or post or
whatever it's attached to -- check the parts manual for the
exploded diagram) is rotating, and the line moves. If I remember
correctly, as you turn the knob clockwise, the line "moves up" in
the little window.

have fun!

 




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