Female pilot accident rates

" wrote in message roups.com...

I am all for that. Same standards, same opportunities. Women can and
do perform well in high-stress environments, generally speaking.

I know full well than some can, so yes I agree. And the competent
ones suffer because of the bad ones. People start painting them
all with the same brush, or however the saying goes.

I like to fly, but I daresay I don't have whatever it takes to fly an
F-14 in carrier operations. But then, *statistically*, you don't
either. Very few people do.

I'll admit that the only cockpit I've ever even SAT in was in a Herc
that was parked at an airshow. But as far as ever being able to fly
an F-14 in carrier operations, we'll never know. Maybe I'm a cocky
s.o.b. but I suspect I'd have had no problems, if I'd chosen that
route--always had great vision, kept very fit, good reflexes/coord., never
had an auto accident, and damn few--very few--tickets, so I'm also
disciplined to obey rules. But of course, I could've also been
a wash-out at it, I don't know. Truth is, I'd have been more interested
in flying the bigger stuff anyway.

But women can do ok, given the chance. Debby Rihn-Harvey, Svetlana
Kapanina, and Patty Wagstaff are examples of this.

Again, I have no doubts of this. But there's too much damn politics
at work today.

---------------

NoPoliticsHere wrote:
I know full well than some can, so yes I agree. And the competent
ones suffer because of the bad ones. People start painting them
all with the same brush, or however the saying goes.

Which, of course, you pretty much did with your initial post (I am
sorry, but I couldn't resist- you left yourself open for that one

I'll admit that the only cockpit I've ever even SAT in was in a Herc
that was parked at an airshow.
Nice airplanes. But terribly uncomfortable to ride in.

Wendy

"NoPoliticsHere" wrote in message

I'll admit that the only cockpit I've ever even SAT in was in a Herc
that was parked at an airshow. But as far as ever being able to fly
an F-14 in carrier operations, we'll never know. Maybe I'm a cocky
s.o.b. but I suspect I'd have had no problems, if I'd chosen that
route--always had great vision, kept very fit, good reflexes/coord., never
had an auto accident, and damn few--very few--tickets, so I'm also
disciplined to obey rules.

Well, hell, dawg. Call up the Navy and ask 'em to hand you the keys to a
Tomcat. Sheesh...decent driving record, good vision, fit, obeys rules. I'd
be surprised if they didn't commission you and let you bypass most of that
training and flight school nonsense altogether.

Truth is, I'd have been more interested in flying the bigger stuff anyway.

*chuckle* Most aviators feel the same way. Those little Tomcats are just
too small, but there's just so much competition getting into the P-3 and
KC-135 fleets. The only people who fly fighter planes off of carriers these
days are the poor sucks who washed out of cargo plane school.

-c

(NoPoliticsHere) wrote in message . com...
C Kingsbury wrote:

As a proud fascist right-wing capitalist pig, what I'd like to know is,
what's yer point? We've already allowed them to fly planes, drive cars, own
property, even vote, so what precisely is it you would like to see done
about the scourge of chick pilots?

That's easy. No special allowances for gender. Female pilots should
be held to the same standards as the guys. If that means two females
in one cockpit, so be it, but make it equitable.

The problem with that is that there are fewer women signing up for the
military to fly than men. In order for the military to quicky meet
their quota they were forced to allow women to fly that did not meet
the same standards or receive the same amount of training time. That
was the case of Lt. Kara S. Hultgreen. Its been about 10 years now, I
hope they've resolved that issue.

-Robert

On 27 Oct 2004 09:47:44 -0700, (Robert M. Gary)
wrote:

(NoPoliticsHere) wrote in message . com...
C Kingsbury wrote:

As a proud fascist right-wing capitalist pig, what I'd like to know is,
what's yer point? We've already allowed them to fly planes, drive cars, own
property, even vote, so what precisely is it you would like to see done
about the scourge of chick pilots?

That's easy. No special allowances for gender. Female pilots should
be held to the same standards as the guys. If that means two females
in one cockpit, so be it, but make it equitable.

The problem with that is that there are fewer women signing up for the
military to fly than men. In order for the military to quicky meet
their quota they were forced to allow women to fly that did not meet
the same standards or receive the same amount of training time. That
was the case of Lt. Kara S. Hultgreen. Its been about 10 years now, I
hope they've resolved that issue.

They most assuredly have resolved it. It's taken some time, but the
early issues of quota filling are long gone. There are still a bunch
from my generation who have difficulty with the concept, but I've had
the opportunity to meet some of the current female tactical aviators
and it appears to me that they are doing a fine job and are fully
accepted by their counterparts.

One active duty, former F-15E A/C and squadron operations officer told
me that in Desert Storm he flew nearly one-third of his combat
missions with a "wing-woman". He's currently at USAFA serving as an
AOC. His wife, also an AOC was an F-15E WSO. Both attend annual River
Rat reunions.

Another woman I've met, entered service as an F-15E WSO, then after
flying combat in Kosovo, got selected for pilot training. She's now an
F-16 pilot in my old squadron, the 421st TFS. At River Rats in
Nashville last year, a group of male aviators--all still active in the
fighter force--told me (without prompting or politically correct
superiors hovering nearby) that "most of us have to work our asses off
just to be mediocre, she is outstanding without even trying". They
wouldn't say such things without good reason.

It has taken some time, but it has now been around 25 years and the
generations have changed the old thinking about gender roles.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

Ed Rasimus missed the boat:


Another woman I've met, entered service as an F-15E WSO, then after
flying combat in Kosovo, got selected for pilot training. She's now an
F-16 pilot in my old squadron, the 421st TFS. At River Rats in
Nashville last year, a group of male aviators--all still active in the
fighter force--told me (without prompting or politically correct
superiors hovering nearby) that "most of us have to work our asses off
just to be mediocre, she is outstanding without even trying". They
wouldn't say such things without good reason.

Heh heh!

G

Robert,

Good grief, you mean they are still trying to smear the name of Lt.
Hultgreen? I guess a catastrophic engine failure on short final to
the carrier is so routine that any pilot could recover, but, as she
was a woman, she was suspect. Guess she should have joined the Guard
where she could and flown in Texas for a while, then moved to Alabama
and not bothered to even show up or take a flight physical so she
could get an honorable discharge.

Interesting events when the Army first trained women in helos. As was
done when the military was forced to integrate in the '50s, there were
those who didn't want "them" flying and did their best to flunk them
out despite the fact women had flown Army Air Force airplanes in WWII
after going through Army training. To the frustration of the
malcontents, the women helo trainees managed to complete the course
and obtain their wings. Not missing a beat, the Army then required
them to qualify for fixed wing ops, to get their commercial,
instrument, multi-engine training (equivalent to civilian ratings) in
a Baron in 60 days, as method of washing them out after they had their
wings. All of them did it. Once that hurdle was cleared, the Army
decided that they'd let the women fly and sent them off to the
squadrons where the ones I know tell me they were treated fairly.

All the best,
Rick

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in message . com...
(NoPoliticsHere) wrote in message . com...
C Kingsbury wrote:

As a proud fascist right-wing capitalist pig, what I'd like to know is,
what's yer point? We've already allowed them to fly planes, drive cars, own
property, even vote, so what precisely is it you would like to see done
about the scourge of chick pilots?

That's easy. No special allowances for gender. Female pilots should
be held to the same standards as the guys. If that means two females
in one cockpit, so be it, but make it equitable.

The problem with that is that there are fewer women signing up for the
military to fly than men. In order for the military to quicky meet
their quota they were forced to allow women to fly that did not meet
the same standards or receive the same amount of training time. That
was the case of Lt. Kara S. Hultgreen. Its been about 10 years now, I
hope they've resolved that issue.

-Robert

"NoPoliticsHere" wrote in message

That's easy. No special allowances for gender. Female pilots should
be held to the same standards as the guys.

Whatever makes you think they're not?

Peter Stickney wrote:

The sex of the pilot makes no difference.

Suuurrrrre it didn't. Six prior crashes and still allowed
to fly the F-14, and the sex made no difference????

Makes about as much sense as your other milksop response.

-------------

"Roger Long" wrote in message news:YN9fd.21714$

The study was of ferry pilots in World War II and looked at the
performance
of men and women delivering aircraft to England.

A girl I dated in college got married shortly afterward, and at the
reception I overheard her grandmother talking a relative from the groom's
side. The one room was wedding schmooze, college kids and friends and the
mothers trying not to freak out, and in the back room it was just the two
elderly people talking about landing Hellcats.

If I'd have known the girl's grandmother was a WAVE, I'd have married her.
The grandmother, I mean. ;

-c