Class B busted...My problem or the controller's ?

"Antoñio" wrote in message
oups.com...

An instruction from ATC is often a free pass to deviate from the FAR's.
I was allowed deviation from a FAR last week in my J-3 when I entered
the mode C veil of Seatack.


What was the instruction that allowed you to enter the Mode C veil? Does
your J3 have an engine-driven electrical system?



BTW...ATC never told me to extend my downwind. The downwind was
extended by virtue of the fact that the aircraft I was told to follow
was way out there.


You said it was on a two-mile final. It appears there was plenty of room to
follow the Arrow and avoid Class B if you had flown a proper pattern.

A Lieberman wrote:



FOR ME, by the time I am abeam the numbers, unless I am asked to keep my
speed up, I am at my final approach speed of 70 knots in my Sundowner.


And everybody behind has to slow down too or extend downwind if flying a
faster aircraft.

"Antoñio" wrote in message
ups.com...

Slow flight would have been good had there been time. I was abeam the
end of the runway when cleared to follow the Arrow. I was in B airspace
(so it seems) around 20 seconds later.


What were you flying?



BFI has radar and is separating me from other traffic, right? That is
not technically "radar service"?


BFI probably has a BRITE scope but they're providing separation only on the
runway. VFR aircraft are provided no separation while airborne in Class D
airspace.

An instruction from ATC is often a free pass to deviate from the FAR's.
I was allowed deviation from a FAR last week in my J-3 when I entered
the mode C veil of Seatack.

Many of the rules say "unless authorized by the administrator, no person
may..." and an instruction from ATC =is= such an authorization. So it's
within the rules.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...

Mike, many planes have more than one radio these days.


A stuck mike blocks all radios tuned to that frequency.

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...

They often broadcast on ground and tower frequencies simultaneously.


And sometimes clearance delivery as well, but they're still not going to
tell pilots to turn off all their radios.

"Greg Farris" wrote in message
...

Sure they can. It's the Bravo tower that will write you up for violating
their airspace.


What instruction is violated in that case?



In this case, it becomes "convenient" for them to not be
able to locate the tapes from the Delta tower you were talking to. His
tapes could vindicate you, if you were acting under the assumption the
two are in communication with each other, or at least you were following
ATC instructions. If these tapes are "unavailable", then you just strayed
into calss B, with no justificfation or defense.


If you followed a tower instruction that caused you to enter Class B
airspace then you busted the regulation requiring a clearance to enter Class
B airspace and the tapes will not show that you violated the tower's
instruction. The condition of the tower tapes in that case is irrelevant.

If you violated a tower instruction in order to avoid Class B airspace then
the tapes may prove that you violated an ATC instruction. If that's the
case and the tower tapes are lost or damaged then there's no hard proof that
you violated the tower's instruction.

It's a moot point in any case since ATC does not expect you to follow an
instruction that would require you to violate an FAR.

"Antoñio" wrote in message
oups.com...

Define what the "proper pattern" would have been in this case please.


http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0403.html#4-3-3

"Jose" wrote in message
...

Many of the rules say "unless authorized by the administrator, no person
may..." and an instruction from ATC =is= such an authorization. So it's
within the rules.


Negative. "Administrator" means the Federal Aviation Administrator or any
person to whom he has delegated his authority in the matter concerned. If
"Administrator" included "ATC" then there wouldn't be any need to
differentiate between them and we'd have no rules that included "Unless
otherwise authorized or required by ATC".

used to be.. that all ATC facilities had to keep "tapes" and paper records
for 30days..
after that they could be reused.. if they wait more than 30days to file a
complaint..
I would think they don't have a case.

BT

"Greg Farris" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...


Without the tapes they can't prove you violated an instruction.

Sure they can. It's the Bravo tower that will write you up for violating
their airspace. In this case, it becomes "convenient" for them to not be
able to locate the tapes from the Delta tower you were talking to. His
tapes could vindicate you, if you were acting under the assumption the
two are in communication with each other, or at least you were following
ATC instructions. If these tapes are "unavailable", then you just strayed
into calss B, with no justificfation or defense.

G Faris